To not care whether people say sex or gender.

[TeeJay1970]

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

It didnt happen for me

I thought i would only ever have boys

Also agree with the poster who said you don't bond with the sex, do you? You bond with the gender.

Wha?

You don't bond with the sex or gender of your child you bond with your child. What a ridiculous argument for why the words sex and gender should be used interchangeably.

Well of course you bond with your child too, not just the gender.

So Nonexistantfox, do you think gender stereotypes are innate?

I think a) the burden of proof is on you, it's your proposition, and b) you haven't yet distinguished between the instinct, or capacity, and its expression.

Grammar is an innate instinct, but the ability to express it in specific languages is the result of nurture. Rhythmic or strategic or sporting or whatever ability is innate in varying degrees, but the rules of chess or the steps of the waltz are not. They do, however, display certain fundamental principles in common with other manifestations of these capacities in the same or similar field.

So you believe in 'lady brain' then? Or that if a woman has good spatial awareness skills, then she actually has a male brain?

Again, the burden of proof is on you to explain why your precious XX chromosomes which, according to you, inescapably determine the nature of every cell in our bodies, paradoxically have no impact on the cells of your brain, which is, for most of us at least, a really vital part of our bodies. I thought Biology Is A Fact and stuff?

@RivanQueen

None of your examples show why men's rights are coming above female rights.

The fact you call them men's feelz and women's rights is telling. Surely yours are only feelz too?

Besides which, this is about trans rights. Are you as against vaginas in men only spaces (which women protest against existing)? I think you're completely wrong because you haven't given a single reason for the assertion men and women are being treated differently.

A trans man and trans woman have the same rights, don't they?

raspberry
"woman rights will fall to a third position behind mens rights and behind trans rights and I don't want that to happen."

Can you tell me where that happens in the UK?

Google Karen White, there are others but if you've been keeping yourself in the dark about this issue and just want to talk from a viewpoint of ignorance this will get you started.

In all of this it is to word woman that the TRA is trying to erase, Shon Faye (a trans-woman who loudly voices "her" victimhood) tweeted 'enjoy your erasure' in reference to women, it's women's spaces that are being invaded, women are being expected to bear the brunt of the risk of taking male bodied people into their segregated spaces, women and being expected to fix this issue that trans-women (biological men) have. Why? And why do you seem to think this is ok?

Another point - It doesn't help that a a senior Scottish prison official convicted of possessing 22,000 indecent images of children and now on the sex offenders' register was one of those responsible for introducing its “gender identity and gender reassignment policy” which places men in women's prisons according to their self identification (because sex and gender are just words and using one for the other isn't something to be bovvered by is it, and nothing could ever go wrong by changing single-sex to single-gender ).
I'm sure his motives are 100% pure and he is completely behind maintaining women's rights and keeping women and children safe

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sex-offender-gordon-pike-helped-set-prison-trans-rules-q8n3lnksv?shareToken=b8704c9c7a62d239c58da9201314d697

So as we speak women's rights are being chipped away at and being put 3rd behind mens and trans rights and it has to stop.

BTW if people are rightfully concerned about men being allowed into women's prisons please sign the petition below, we need to get this situation sorted so vulnerable women who are incarcerated can be protected.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/228767?fbclid=IwAR30knDH9VrfYA5ZMukg-d6jxI4JCJsZJ5tP8Zc0knrwQ2SxJi5EoW2asqw

"just want to talk from a viewpoint of ignorance this will get you started."

Not everyone who disagrees with you is ignorant. That's an important lesson that could help you in life.

Yeah, point of ignorance is a bit but not surprising.
People can disagree with you, doesn't mean they're ignorant.

The NHS don't do Gender scans. They do 20 week Anomaly scans, in which you can sometimes find out the genitals of your baby. Genitals are one of the primary sex characteristics, not gender.

They tell you nothing about your child's gender identity, how your child will identify, or what they will enjoy.

Just out of interest, raspberry, what kind of school are you the “headmistress” of that you’ve been able to post regularly on here since before 6am?

I’ve just finished my school day (not a teacher) and haven’t stopped “celebrating” Christmas with the children all day.

raspberryTrousers
Spend a lot of time posting here for a head teacher.. especially during school hours.. odd..

Anywho..

look some links:

Women's rights to free speech put behind the rights of men to say they're women.

www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/news/politics/leeds-feminist-event-cancelled-at-11th-hour-by-council-after-transphobic-claims-1-9372513

Karen white.
Born male is transitioning.
Putting his rights ahead of the rights of those women in prison to not be trapped with a rapist and not to be raped.

www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/11/transgender-prisoner-who-sexually-assaulted-inmates-jailed-for-life

@raspberryTrousers
Yes I think that vaginas don't belong in men's only spaces. Both out of respect for, the dignity of and for the safety of the people who have vaginas but to also maintain the dignity and show respect to the people who have penises. I am a firm believer that there should be spaces made available for those people in society that are trans, they deserve respect and to be kept safe just like everyone else. If you put a trans-man into a men's prison you are putting that person at serious risk of assault, rape and possibly death. If you put a trans-woman in a women's prison that person can potentially pose a very large risk to the vulnerable women in that prison (Karen White is a prime example of this and that is not the only example). I believe that taking people of different biological sex and placing them in spaces that have been deliberately segregated by biological sex - prisons, changing rooms, rape clinics, hospital wards etc. opens up potential risks that do not need to be there and keeping them single-SEX removes those risks.

Dunno about you lot, but I bond with the child. That’s what makes it so weird for me when parents attempt to police what toys their kid plays with or the clothes they wear based on what’s between their legs. It doesn’t make any difference to my bonding if my daughter prefers trucks and trousers or if my son prefers dolls and dresses. I know what their sex is. It’s on their birth certificate.
The difficulty is when well-meaning but hard-of-thinking folk convince themselves and each other that this set of preferences mean that the birth certificate is wrong. I call this set of random personal preferences ‘gender’.
We all know what sex is.
It’s weird to me that people try to conflate the reality of sex to the choices people make about their hair or whether to carry a gold purse or not.
Genitalia and biology (sex!) have zero to do with social behaviour and the choices we make, except for those we are coerced into by society’s completely arbitrary stereotypes accorded to people with those genitals. Let’s call them ‘gender stereotypes’.
People suggesting gender and sex are the same thing are pretty regressive. It’s a really poor way of saying ‘I believe that stereotypes should be made into law’. And oh, look, next we have an actual law which says that if you abide by the gender stereotypes socially attributed to the oposite sex for two years, we’ll give you a certificate that says legally you are that sex.
Society is fucked.
Enshrine gender stereotypes in law and sex becomes meaningless.
No sex based protections for women because as long as you adhere to the ‘woman’ stereotypes, we’ll ignore your male sex.
What’s that now? No need to adhere to any stereotypes, you can just fill in a form?

Righty. So having successfully obliterated sex, as any male bodied person can legally be a woman, and having obliterated the necessity to even adopt gender stereotypes (however fucking stupid they were in the first place) what are the effects on women (the real biological cunty sort)?
Teenage girls having to share tents and school trip dormitories and toilets and showers with teenage penises. Rape victims sharing bedrooms in shelters and prison cells with penises. Female Gym and swimming pool changing rooms where penises are protected species. Airports and police stations where women are searched by males. Medical services where no one has the right to same sex care. All penised sports as both men’s and women’s competition is filled by giant men with penises.
A parliament full of penises because half of them got in under AWS because the concept of sex was erased. Female employment stats look great because there is no way of telling how many people in work have penises compared to those who don’t (clue - this will allow employers to easily discriminate against women of child-bearing age, who are easily identifiable as such despite the official line that sex doesn’t exist.) There will be a huge jump in rape and sex crime committed by women (with penises, but obviously this won’t be allowed to be mentioned, as sex is meaningless, even though the perpetrators have penises and the victims don’t - completely meaningless).
I’m so glad that sex and gender are totally the same thing.
It’s not as though being born female hasn’t had an impact on anyone’s life or anything. We just aren’t allowed to discuss it. Reality is unlawful.
God bless our Shon. Women, enjoy yr erasure.

What's raspberry's posting times got to do with anything?
Could have a day off or anything for all you know.
Bet you'd question if was a head as much if they thought the same as you, eh...

If women no longer means adult human female then how do we talk about women’s rights, discrimination, spaces, sexual violence or measure progress.

It just becomes meaningless if women means anyone. Women’s rights will cease to exist.

Some people won’t be able to bond with their own child unless there are gender stereotypes in place apparently.

Could have a day off or anything for all you know.

Head teachers don’t get days off! And I mentioned it because I don’t believe she’s a head teacher. HTH.

I did say or anything not just a day off.

@Mamaryllis
Well said!

And what would the “or anything” be?

Heads are sometimes off site for meetings or off sick. Maybe she’s off sick. You know, feverish and delirious. That would explain a lot.

@RivanQueen

But choices about prisons are made on a case-by-case basis.

Why are you talking about respect and dignity of the bevaginaed if they make the choice to be in a man's space? I doubt you talk about the same in reverse.

I'm still in the dark as to how this is about promoting men's rights and not trans rights. In fact, I think it's illustrating the fact that many talk about trans when they mean men which is false equivalence.

@FamilyOfAliens

I'm currently unemployed - of sorts. I ended last academic year as head of a well-known international school in the Middle East. I'm currently in SG for a couple of weeks visiting my son who's an ex-pat here.

I say unemployed as I have a contract to start work in Australia in January. As the two academic years aren't aligned, I took a few months off.

Is that ok for a "headmistress"?

Actually I preferred feverish and delirious myself.

Raspberry trousers - pretty laughable that you have to explain yourself to conspiracy theories and personal attacks as you have a different view to some. Keep going, refreshing to read a different voice on these threads.

Gender is a social construct

Could someone humour me, just for once on this, and prove it, please?

Sure. I'm a female and am interested in maths and physics and am good at parking and DIY and not at interested in home decor or make up.

Just about every human being proves that gender is a social construct by not being walking talking barbies or action men.