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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To not care whether people say sex or gender.

999 replies

TeeJay1970 · 11/12/2018 21:48

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

OP posts:
Pennydrew142 · 15/12/2018 13:57

GlitterStick

WE ARE NOT TELLING ANYONE TO TAKE HORMONES OR TO TRY AND LOOK ANY OTHER WAY THAN THEY WERE BORN.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 13:58

Ok where's the post about black people Weetabix has supposedly made
Missed it?
Want to see what was actually said first before commenting but hard to scroll up and back on phone

Pennydrew142 · 15/12/2018 13:59

GlitterStick

It’s been copied twice. Look for it yourself

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 13:59

Sorry cross post will read it

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 13:59

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BernardBlacksWineIcelolly · 15/12/2018 13:59

Jaysus

GlitterStick, are you seriously saying GC women are responsible for children taking cross sex hormones?

because that would be a new low for you

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 14:00

I made reference to toilets and changing rooms in regards to self policing. These are the occasions where a woman might ask another person to leave because they appear male.

In a hospital, rape crisis centre, prison, awards list, sporting competition there will be officials responsible for excluding someone. I am not "concentrating" on toilets other than only one of a couple of places where there is a danger that a masculine looking woman might be asked to leave because they are incorrectly identified as being male, by another service user.

And no I am not being racist by saying that people choose to risk their health in trying to change their physical appearance because some sections of society send the message that who they are is not acceptable.

That is a result of racism. That black people get sent the message that being white is desirable. It is a hideous undertone, and sometimes nit even an undertone but a blatant message, of our society. So yes, I draw parallels with all people willing to take huge risks with their health in an attempt to change themselves to fit with what society says is acceptable.

Hyppolyta · 15/12/2018 14:00

We also are not the ones saying men shouldnt wear make up, or dresses, or anything else they want.

Pennydrew142 · 15/12/2018 14:01

My mother has literally been spat on by strangers on the street in front of me, beaten in her own home also in front of me, because of the colour of her skin. If a comparison is made between that and a MALE demanding to be let into our spaces and taking hormomes to do so, I will seriously rage down on anyone doing that.

That is fucking racist bullshit and I’m not having it.

JacquesHammer · 15/12/2018 14:01

sporting competition there will be officials responsible for excluding someone

And why do you think they are “excluding” someone?

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 14:02

Penny Thanks

Pennydrew142 · 15/12/2018 14:02

Weetabixandshreddies

No. You don’t get to do that nor do you get to decide what is racist.

You’re a racist.

Hyppolyta · 15/12/2018 14:02

Weetabix black people were sold into slavery, raped, murdered, lynched, the list is endless, because of their race.

Is that happening to transpeople?

No. And its massively wrong and offensive to compare the two.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 14:03

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 14:04

Imagine my surprise at Glitter'a response.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 14:05

Boys being bullied for being effeminate is due to homophobia. It doesn't mean we should pretend they are women. Woman is not an absence of maleness.

R0wantrees · 15/12/2018 14:05

Imagine my surprise at Glitter'a response.

Almost as if you recognise a pattern?

Datun · 15/12/2018 14:06

You know what, I think it's feminism's fault that transgenderism even exists.

First rule of misogyny, isn't it?

Hyppolyta · 15/12/2018 14:06

Glitterstick people tried to disguise their race, as being black could get them abused, or worse.

Males try to disguise their sex to get into female spaces.

Spot the fucking difference.

Pennydrew142 · 15/12/2018 14:07

It's the same on here with passing - some transwomen feel like they should be dressing feminine as even other women have an idea of what women "should" look like.
And that's not right either

Men taking hormones to look feminine in THEIR eyes is not our fault or at our request. It is nothing like being born black. There’s no ‘should’ about what females look like, it’s just factual that there are female and male characteristics, including but not limited to sex characteristics.

Seriously if MN allow this racist BS I’ll be very surprised.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 14:07

Yes, that is feminism's fault, as is transphobia and in particular that of men who don't like effeminate men.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 14:08

Spot the fucking difference.

This.

R0wantrees · 15/12/2018 14:09

That is fucking racist bullshit and I’m not having it.

Pennydrew142 it is & the appropriation is appalling.
Flowers

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 14:11

But I am not comparing the two.

I am saying that people are taking risks with their health in order to change their bodies because of messages that society sends.

Why do women have cosmetic surgery? Because somehow they get a message that women should look a certain way.

Why do some black people try to alter their appearance? Because of the way society has treated black people.

Why do trans gender people under go surgery or drug treatments? Because people judge their appearance first.

I am not saying that the treatment or experiences of these people is the same or at the same level.

I am saying that judging people based on their appearance causes people to try and change themselves, even when they can't change who they are biologically they are.

R0wantrees · 15/12/2018 14:12

First rule of misogyny, isn't it?

h/t The Bewilderness:
"The rules of misogyny
1st rule of misogyny: Women are responsible for what men do.
2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.
3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.
4th rule of misogyny: Women's opinions are violence against men thus male violence against women is justified.
5th rule of misogyny: WATM! Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.
6th rule of misogyny: Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breast feeding babies deserve punishment.
7th rule of misogyny: Women should always be grateful to men for everything.
8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.
9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the "real reasons" for everything women do and say. 10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it males men look bad. 11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt men's feelings.

12th rule of misogyny: whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

13th rule of misogyny: Women are not oppressed! Rape and catcalling and objectification are all compliments, not oppression.

14th rule of misogyny: Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent."