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AIBU?

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Original poster

To not care whether people say sex or gender.

999 replies

TeeJay1970 · 11/12/2018 21:48

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

OP posts:
Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 11:58

There was a conversation Rat. Not a passing comment.

Whatever they like. But its completely ridiculous to suggest they are pressured to look like a woman. It's clearly a personal choice for a male person to claim to be an actual woman rather than a male person with dysphoria.

Datun · 15/12/2018 11:58

I'm not sure that the people who matter, i.e. men, are judging transwomen for not being womanly enough. They are judging them for not being manly. Hence the comments like why on earth would they dress up as women, just to attack you. They are not being lauded for dressing up as women and encouraged just to do it better, because it's considered a bit icky.

'Being more feminine', would actually be men encouraging them to be quiet, sit still, not take up any room, do the housework, and write the Christmas cards.

It's women who complain that transwomen still look like men. But not because they want them to look more womanly, but to show up how the very term woman is meaningless unless based on biology.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 11:59

And they're judged for it! In the same way that a woman would be, because they wouldn't be judged for "looking like a man" if they were one.

But as I said quite clearly and which you've skipped over. That isn't all MTF trans people

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:01

I'm not sure that the people who matter, i.e. men, are judging transwomen for not being womanly enough. They are judging them for not being manly.

Exactly. Most men don't think if they just tried a bit harder they'd be womanly. Men in general do not believe TWAW.

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 12:01

By 'only women acceptable to you' do you mean the ones without penises?
I mean that you only find women who think and act like you are acceptable to you.

I've called plenty of men "love" in the same way online, actually. As a pp pointed out, it just means that I think your arguments are foolish

Then why not say "I find your answer..."? Why use a misogynistic put down?

If I think someone is being mean or spiteful I would say that. I wouldn't call it bitchy because that is misogynistic.

Your answer was unsatisfactory grin
there you go, it has to be the "right" answer for some otherwise don't give a fig what's being said.

Exactly.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:02

You've tried to answer a challenging question with sophistry as a gotcha as if it's some kind of logic puzzle you need to solve, and you've failed Rat. As all the clownfish bollocks sophistry also does.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:03

Then why not say "I find your answer..."? Why use a misogynistic put down?

It's not a misogynistic put down. I am a woman. So are you. I don't think less of you because you are a woman. I think your arguments are extremely poor.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 12:04
Grin

Rat, you've failed. Hang your head in shame Grin

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:04

At least she tried.

Helmetbymidnight · 15/12/2018 12:04

Oh I see, so transwomen are put under terrible pressure to ‘perform femininity’ when all they really want to do is get on with the day to day life of being a natal born woman without the silly gender stereotypes.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:04

Unlike some posters across multiple threads.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 12:07

I'm glad to know love isn't a mysogynistic put down.
Bet if it was put to the test,
ie call someone love or nah, nah, mate! to their point in FWR see if it's ok and not picked up on or play a game of how long will it be until I'm called a man or TRA lol

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 12:09

How do you get away with saying this?

Being trans gender is a protected characteristic yet the things that you say clearly shows that you fundamentally do not accept these people.

It's nothing to do with protecting safe spaces or anything because clearly you have an issue with how people dress, appear, identify. If a trans woman never attempted to use any female facility, participate in sport you would still have a problem with them existing at even the most fundamental level.

But why and how do you get away with this?

RatRolyPoly · 15/12/2018 12:10

You think enforced conformity to gender stereotypes is sophistry?? Okay, wow. Really it was a very obvious answer and a simple, everyday feminist concept.

What's this about clownfish?

It's women who complain that transwomen still look like men. But not because they want them to look more womanly, but to show up how the very term woman is meaningless unless based on biology.

Actually it's women AND men who prefer a trans woman to actually LOOK like a woman, you know, because Paris Lees or Jazz Jennings gets less stick around here than Danielle Muscato or Caitlyn Jenner.

Whether you like it or not you're responsible for imposing and policing gender stereotypes. You're even responsible for uniting women with trans women by policing the femininity of trans women, which you wouldn't do if they were simply men and all that mattered was their sex. Because actually, GENDER MATTERS.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:11

Being trans gender is a protected characteristic

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic. That is not the same as "being transgender" under the Stonewall definition.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 12:11

Well said again, Weetabix!

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 12:11

It's not a misogynistic put down.
Oh I am so going to test this out.

I shall skip around FWR commenting and calling people "love" and let's see the response.

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:13

You think enforced conformity to gender stereotypes is sophistry?? Okay, wow. Really it was a very obvious answer and a simple, everyday feminist concept.

We're not talking about whether they wear a nicer dress here, Rat. We're talking about male people not passing as female. Which is to be expected.

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 12:13

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic.
Fine. But you don't agree or accept that either so my point stands.

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 12:14

I can just imagine the response it'd get, you'd need your flame proof big girl pants on, they'd be after us with flame throwers lol Grin

jellyfrizz · 15/12/2018 12:14

If a trans woman never attempted to use any female facility, participate in sport you would still have a problem with them existing at even the most fundamental level.

No one has said this.

Weetabixandshreddies · 15/12/2018 12:14

We're talking about male people not passing as female.
What does that mean?

What does a female look like?

R0wantrees · 15/12/2018 12:15

Because not all MTFs make the choice to present themselves in what they imagine is a female appearing way.

And they're judged for it! In the same way that a woman would be, because they wouldn't be judged for "looking like a man" if they were one.

I've only ever seen the preoccupation with judging males who identify as women's 'feminine appearance' coming from them. It seems to be a key aspect and preoccupation for many (unsurprisingly)

It's often projected onto those who question trans-ideology by TRAs re the 'arguments', what about 'butch women', what about transmen like Buck Angel in single-sex spaces etc etc

GlitterStick · 15/12/2018 12:15

It's extremely heavily implied by some jelly

Ereshkigal · 15/12/2018 12:17

What does a female look like?

Don't pretend that in 99.99% of cases you can't tell a woman from a man.