To not care whether people say sex or gender.

[TeeJay1970]

Many people and organisations use these words interchangerbly. The meaning is always clear. I actually don't give a stuff if others disagree.

I don't know where that leaves women like me, mind

Heading for a fall when it becomes apparent that no, just because you play nice, just because you go along with it, doesnt mean that once they get what they want , you won't be under the bus woth the rest of us.

When services are no longer required you will be as hated as everyone else

So just because you can't see it, it doesn't exist, is that how it works love?

Let's save some time.

Glitter, are you prepared to define what a "transwoman" is?

Is there a point where a self IDing male becomes a "transwoman" and should be accepted by women into female spaces?

When exactly is this point, if so?

TY in anticipation.

Not on board with anyone just self IDing, but transwomen are welcome in my spaces.

The intent behind Posie's poster was to assert women and girls' sex based rights.

Sex is a protected characteristic in the Equality Act. It's defined like this:

---
11 Sex

In relation to the protected characteristic of sex—

(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a man or to a woman;

(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons of the same sex.
---

So I share the protected characteristic of sex with people who are women.

If woman now means potentially anybody then I share the protected characteristic of sex with potentially anybody.

So sex discrimination becomes no longer a thing because the bad thing that happened to me because I have a cunt and belong to the class of humans that are capable of pregnancy and childbirth (regardless of whether I, individually, am capable of these) could have happened to potentially anybody. The sex based exceptions in the EA that allow women only spaces and services as a proportionate means to achieving a legitimate aim must now admit potentially anybody.

Language is important. It's what laws are made of and it's also how we spread ideas.

There's a direct link between this mangling and repurposing of language, and situations like Karen White being placed in a women's prison where White sexually assaulted two women.

Or Girlguiding, changing itself by stealth from a single sex to a single gender organisation so that there may be a male bodied child sharing a tent with your daughter and you won't be told, and if your daughter has a problem with it, it is her who will be invited to move and probably offered some education.

Or your children being shown some bullshit mermaids gender scale in school, with Barbie at one end and GI Joe at the other, and asked to think about where they might fit on such a scale, with the strong implication that if their interests and preferences differ from the socially endorsed choices for their sex (aka gender) then they might not actually be a girl (or a boy) at all.

Or a woman specifically asking for a female nurse to perform her smear and turning up to her appointment to be greeted by a very obviously male bodied person who identified as female.

Or lesbians being pressurised to at least consider tw, even those who still have a penis, as potential sexual partners, and then to at least consider whether the cotton ceiling is evidence of their immense c*s privilege, genital fetishism and bigotry.

Sexual orientation is also a protected characteristic in the EA. It depends entirely on the definition of sex:

----

12 Sexual orientation

(1)Sexual orientation means a person's sexual orientation towards—

(a)persons of the same sex,
(b)persons of the opposite sex, or
(c)persons of either sex.

(2)In relation to the protected characteristic of sexual orientation—

(a)a reference to a person who has a particular protected characteristic is a reference to a person who is of a particular sexual orientation;
(b)a reference to persons who share a protected characteristic is a reference to persons who are of the same sexual orientation.

-----

glitter

Stone wall has pretty much anyone who even looks at a bra as a trans woman.

Do you accept a man who wears a dress once a week in your spaces?

It's all or nothing with trans. You can't accept one and not the other

GlitterStick how will you tell the difference between 'just anyone' and an authentic trans woman?

Not on board with anyone just self IDing, but transwomen are welcome in my spaces.

What criteria would you use to decide who was a transwoman who was welcome in your spaces?

What happens if other women who share your spaces are not happy with your criteria?

I'm never going to hear about how you identify a female gender identity am I?

Maybe they have glitter on their stick??

glitter I'm also interested to hear how you define what a trans woman is. You say you're happy to have them in your spaces, do you include Karen White and Ian Huntley (now Nicola) in the people you're happy to have? Because if you accept trans woman in your spaces you can't descriminate you either accept all of them or none of them.

... if you accept trans woman in your spaces you can't descriminate you either accept all of them or none of them.

Yes, while it would be lovely to have a conversation about where everyone might draw their own compassionate, reasonable line in the sand, the position we're in now is all or none, precisely because of the pressure to believe that sex and gender are the same thing.

There is no longer any place you can draw the line and be confident you would not be taken to court, lose your job, have piss flung up your door, have the police called bla bla.

Not on board with anyone just self IDing, but transwomen are welcome in my spaces.

What's the difference? Where would you draw the line?

Drawing a line still makes sone one a "terf" right?!

Saying no to self ID makes some one a "terf" doesn't it?

So what I'm.not sure what makes you think.you are now any safer than the rest of us.

They will hate you and threaten you with the rest of us

"They?" Wow, that's some putting all extremists as speaking for everyone.
Kind of what you're doing speaking for "bio" women? You don't speak for all of us either.

Nice question avoidance

How do you tell a naked trans woman from a naked man.

How do you keep fakers out and trans woman in when trans covers everything from part time cross dressing to full on surgical patients.

Do tell

Not on board with anyone just self IDing, but transwomen are welcome in my spaces.

So what's the difference between 'anyone self id-ing' and a 'transwoman'?

So glitterstick has boundaries, just like the rest of us here.

The only difference is where we draw them, and who we decide can cross them.

Your boundaries exclude all transwomen. I don't and neither do lots of others.

Define trans woman.

We are using the Stone wall definition by the way.

And how do you tell?

What is your definition of a trans woman glitter and does it include Karen White and Ian Huntley?

Our boundaries are all different glitterstick.

You cannot say that women establishing and defending their boundaries is because of hate, when you too have boundaries, you just don't agree with where we draw ours.
How do you tell genuine trans women apart from 'just anyone' self ID-ing as a woman? I thought that was the point of self-ID, that anyone could do it. No gate-keeping, only affirmation, all that jazz.
But now you are saying you decide who is a real trans woman, and who is 'just anyone'.

You're not "drawing boundaries" though. You're saying no to all transwomen.

Because there's no way to tell. Or you would have answered the question .

How do you define trans woman

yes, this 'only genuine transwomen, but I can't tell you how to define a transwoman' thing is interesting

doesn't really work though does it? how do you tell who's really trans and who's a chancer?

How about saying yes to half?

Or yes to the prettiest ones