This is a difficult one. Not sure how to handle it without setting off WW3

[FuckOffAndWriteYourOwnArticles]

Bit of background: I am married to DH. We have two DCs who are 3 and 6. My SIL (DH’s sister) has a 2.5 year old DC by a married man who she is still having an affair with. To make it even worse, we very tenuously know the wife of the married man. One of the mums of a kid in my eldest DC’s class knows her. Oh, SIL and her DC live with MIL. MIL is widowed.

Okay, so the married man (MM) that SIL is having an affair with is going to be meeting SIL and her DC over at my MIL’s over Christmas for a secret ‘family’ get together. They’ve done this before but we’ve never had anything to do with it in the past. But this year SIL wants us to come over with our DCs so that the cousins can be together —and she can delude herself that she has a normal family—

I’d be uncomfortable about this anyway, because I find the whole thing a bit grubby. But what’s really pissed me off is that SIL said to DH that our DCs must be sworn to secrecy and can’t say anything about seeing MM at MIL’s house (because of the school mum connection).

I want to say a blanket ‘no way’ to the whole thing. My children are not going to be dragged into a dirty shagging lie. But DH is all ‘don’t be so judgemental’ and he and his mum are getting defensive of SIL and they think I’m implying his family are all Jeremy Kyle scum and I’m superior.

It’s all getting a bit political and I don’t know if I should just cave and agree to it because the DCs probably won’t even register MM and it’ll all be fine. AIBU to stick to my guns because of the principle? If I do, it’ll mean bad blood between me and MIL and also likely DH for a while.

This reminds me slightly of a situation we know of (friends of my parents) - my dad's best friend, married, 2 kids, has been having an affair for years and years with another woman, has kid by her, visits her regularly etc. It all got a bit aargh when one son by his wife became friends with his son by his mistress at school. The kids all found out at some point (they're all adults now), in fact, everyone knows - my dad had even been to the OW's house with his friend, it was very much an open secret...except the only person who doesn't know is the wife.

Except, of course, she does know and they are all absolutely kidding themselves if they think she doesn't. She's just choosing to ignore it.

I would be really surprised, OP, if the wife DIDN'T know, tbh. But it wouldn't be your place to tell her, you are not her friend. And you don't know what goes on in their marriage or what sort of arrangement they have.

Tell your SIL that you can't guarantee the kids won't say anything and if she's ok with that then go.

Whilst I am not sure I would agree with you judging their relationship. There is no way you should agree for the kids to be sworn to secrecy as not only would it be idiotic to do so, making the issue seem more important, it would also be impossible to enforce. Also what kind of message would it send out to the kids and their view on honesty?
Also more importantly they have no right to make you keep their secret either. They want to act in such a manner , that's their issue but they cannot expect everyone else to do it to.
Take one big family photo and put it on FB- that's should sort it all out for next year!

I hate all this 'Don't judge them' stuff. Actually of course anyone would judge someone for something like this, it would be impossible not to

So your MIL and husband are ok with this setup - that she has a child with a married man who has no intention of leaving his wife and will have pretend family gatherings every year or so? What is wrong with them? Absolutely right you should be judging them.

Asking DC to lie to cover family secrets isn't on. We had a similar issue and the family were so used to lying and covering up they had done it for decades, long after the bloke they were lying for had died. they were really taken aback when I just told DC the truth and we moved on. These things only get more complicated with time, do not get involved OP this is not a mess of your making.

I just think that the longer this kind of thing goes on though the more people see it as just a part of their lives iyswim.

I.e. if you knew someone was involved with a married man/woman you probably would come down hard in the beginning. But the longer it goes on, and the fact that there is now a child involved means that this affair has become a part of their everyday lives. Nobody is saying that the MIL needs to approve of it, but the longer it goes on the harder it is to distance oneself from it, especially when the SIL and the child live in her home.

If this is the first time the DC have been told to lie though I’d be wondering what had happened to bring all of this about. After all, if even the cousin doesn’t know that the MM is his dad, then it’s a massive leap to assume that the other children are A, going to make this connection between what they believe to be a family friend and the wife who is the mother of one of the children they’re at school with. Why would they? They presumably don’t know that this man is their cousin’s father, and that bit at least they need to not know or be in a position to tell as the cousin doesn’t know either.

Wouldn't be encouraging my children to lie just to keep someones dirty secret. What about when SIL child grows and sees her dad with another family

To all those who are okay with this or feel it’s okay to collude in the lie;

It can help to remember why we teach our kids not to lie in the first place. What reasons do we give?

Things like - lies can mean we lose trust. How can we function, have friends, have families, if we don’t know what’s real or a lie. Lies can be when someone is doing something wrong, and rather than face up to it, we hide it. Always bad, it’s much better to face the consequences and make up for our wrong.

We teach our kids to be honest because it is fundamental to relationships and wellbeing.

In this case, the wife, sill and nephew are all being hurt in one way or another. Because of the lie.

Don’t be part of it, kids model the adults in their lives.

It's really important from a safeguarding perspective that children aren't encouraged to keep secrets. It's not a great lesson for them being told by people they trust to keep this visit a secret.

It would be a big fat no from me.

And if families get caught in the lie, it becomes rotten. It’s very bad for families to close ranks on a lie, bad for everyone.

I saw this in my exes family. They almost thrived in the lies in the end. It was insidious. Skeletons in the closet. That’s why they reacted so awfully when my ex cheated. They did not judge him at all, and kept his secret, told him it wasn’t that bad. The result was he had a buffer to protect him from his hurtful actions. He didn’t fully face up to the wrong. And even though I was prepared to stay with him, he wasn’t as remorseful and prepared to change. So we crumbled.

I'd be very blunt with your MIL/SIL - I'd say that I would go but I would not be part of keeping secrets and absolutely no way will I drag my children into keeping secrets! This is opposite of how we teach our children to behave! Anyway, as others have pointed out, your children are too young to know how to keep a secret, it's laughable to think that they could.

Your SIL wants the impossible, to have a partner by deceit and to simultaneously be able to play happy families as though she has a legitimate relationship. Life doesn't work that way.

I can think of an easier solution than you having to stay away – just ask SIL whether she's checked with MM whether he's comfortable for her DB, his wife and their DC who happen to know have a connection to his wife to join their cosy sordid family get together and watch him run for the hills!

I'd go and tell my DC to be sure to mention it to the 'mutual' friend!!! (Actually, no I wouldn't, but I'd want to!)

I wouldn't go. First because I would never condone infidelity, second because I'd never put myself in a situation where I had to tell my DC to lie to 'keep a secret'.

Even though he pays fuck all towards his child (who thinks he’s a family friend btw)

The child doesn't know this man is his father? That's awful.

You are aware OP, that this will eventually get out, it always does. And people will realize that you kept their dirty little secret from his innocent wife.

So tell now or be discovered later. Either way you'll get the 'blame' from some one.

I would go and ask him how his wife is and could he ask her if she would like to go for a coffee and catch up with Fuckoffandwriteyourownarticles That should do it.

Kids are crap liars. This. Invite your poor little nephew over in the New Year.

While we're on the subject, what on earth is the point of a rich bloke if he's married to someone else?

Please just post/email/text this poor woman an anonymous note. It's terrible that so many people know about this and don't do anything.

I know it's easier said that done and it's in now way your fault, but you have the power to change this for her.

My kids can't keep secrets about tiny little things so expecting them to stay shtum would be ridiculous. I'd also be very uncomfortable with bringing them into the deceit. Fine for them to meet and play with the cousin - all the kids need to know is she/he is your SIL's kid - they don't need to know about the dad. It's a horrible situation for many of the people involved to be in. Their child is still very young but imagine the confusion and pain when they're having to be secretive about their dad growing up.

Say no because the kids can't keep secrets. And because you might drop some truth bombs if you have a festive tipple.

OP, quite apart from any moral issues what would your DC have to tell anyone? 1)MM would be introduced by his first name ( or whatever your nephew calls him) so they will not know of the relationship.
2) Yr DC do not know his legitimate DC and nor do they have a relationship with MMS wife so will not know MM’s connection to his family.
3) If DC1 mentions to school friends that a random man called Brian ( or whatever) as visiting his DGM at Christmas how could that be connected to MM and be relayed back to a school friend’s mother s relevant info to pass onto MM’s wife?
SIL is being silly in even requesting your DC be sworn to secrecy. Time to worry if you strike up a friendship with MM’s wife and your DC get to meet MM on his home territory.
Don’t go if it offends your morals but the risk of your DCs letting the cat out of your life bag and needing to be sworn to secrecy is ludicrous

Is she not secretly hoping the dcs will say something and they will get divorced and she will get her man?

There’s no way someone genuinely wanting to keep a secret would tell a 6 year old to be quiet.

I hate all this 'Don't judge them' stuff. Actually of course anyone would judge someone for something like this, it would be impossible not to hmm

Totally. These things never stay hidden. His wife will be devastated and possibly even SIL. And the damage done to the two children involved will be horrendous.

I was reading something about Amy Winehouse the other day. Her Dad led a secret double life with his bit on the side for many, many years. Lying to his entire family over and over. Eventually he left her Mum for the BOTS. Apparently this was at the root of the many problems Amy had later in her life.

I doubt you can rely on your 6 yo to keep a secret like that. The chances of him saying it back to the MM's family is highly probable. With Christmas coming you could bump into them somewhere and your Dc could mention the dinner and it would be both awkward and upsetting for his real family. I wouldn't involve your DC. I can't believe your ILs need to be told this.

I'd have gone absolutely barmy over this. I'd have told SIL and MIL what I thought of them, I'd have had a row with my DH over his plans and to echo other posters, I'd be wondering what he has been getting up to. YADNBU.

What an absolute mess!

Maybe SIL is hoping the children won’t keep the secret and so he’ll leave his wife but look it’s out of her hands, it wasn’t her that told. She told everyone not to tell.

^^this. 100% this.

And, like everyone else, would I hell as like allow my children to be caught up in this and I would never ever tell them to lie (the "Auntie Audrey your new haircut is LOVELY" lie aside, even when it isn't).

DD2 (4) has a vivid imagination and a tendency towards "little fibs." On one or two occasions they have been embarrassing. We are very very big on the truth in our house. I keep stuff from them so I DON'T have to lie about it!