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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To worry I may never be able to afford children

159 replies

StarFish36 · 11/12/2018 08:59

Am I the only person who considers children cost money? I see so many couples around me having children who are in low paid jobs/council flats/minimal space/minimal money who really struggle. I can’t think of anything worse. I want to have a mortgage and own my own property before we start trying for children, I worry as I am in my late twenties and we have only just started a budget plan so we can save for a deposit. I just can’t see it happening for us. How can people try for children and not consider the position they are in? Not judging at all just genuinely cannot imagine feeling comfortable with having children before we buy a house. Also, if I had a baby whilst renting, it would make it harder for us to borrow in the long run, being on maternity & no guarantee of going back to work full time (you never know what can happen).

OP posts:
KnightlyMyMan · 11/12/2018 13:26

@Koneko

🤔 so ‘poor’ people should go ahead and have children they can’t provide for, so that those children can grow up to be carers for this generation of middle class pensioners who didn’t have their own kids as couldn’t afford to at the time?

It feels like the whole system is broken

Itsnotmesothere · 11/12/2018 13:28

Yes you are the only person. No one else considers these things. Hmm

KnightlyMyMan · 11/12/2018 13:29

MN seems rife with the idea that ‘poor’ people should provreate at will to provide a future generation of minimum wage workers. 🤔 I’m not sure that’s better than thinking people simply shouldn’t have children they can’t provide for.

‘Poor’ people procreating isn’t some sort of ‘grow your own minimum wage workers’ 😂🙈

Andromeida59 · 11/12/2018 13:29

I'm with you OP. I'm now 36 and am TTC (would have been before but been in an accident). People will slate you for planning responsibly but I don't see any issue with it. We have own our home and have two rental properties. We're both in OK jobs but could do better.

As someone who grew up in extreme poverty, I think it's extremely selfish of those who have children regardless of their circumstances. The parents might not be concerned about their children growing up in poverty but the children will be.

I feel that we are in a good position and can afford to have children even if one or both of us were to lose our jobs. Some might call us stupid but I don't think there's anything wrong with having your children grow up with financial stability.

hibbledibble · 11/12/2018 13:33

Op you do sound condescending and judging.

Owning a property is not a prerequisite to having a baby. You can choose to buy a property before planning a child, but that doesn't make the choices of others less valid. For many, home ownership will never be a possibility.

sweeneytoddsrazor · 11/12/2018 13:34

Some of these comments are really dusgusting. Plenty of people from poor backgrounds manage to become more than minimum wage workers. Those poor people having children may well produce the Dr that saves your life.
I sometimes get the feeling some people on hear would happily support eugenics

sweeneytoddsrazor · 11/12/2018 13:34

Here not hear

hibbledibble · 11/12/2018 13:35

andromeida there is a difference between extreme poverty, and not owning a property.

Many professionals cannot afford to ever buy in London, including doctors.

KnightlyMyMan · 11/12/2018 13:36

I’d like to re make my point from earlier-

The reason it bugs me so much is that women would simply not get away with being so ill prepared or irresponsible in ANY other aspect of life! If a woman wandered into a shop and tried to buy a top without having enough money no one else would jump to her deffence like ‘Well that top is over priced you should give it to her for what she can afford!’ So why does everybody do it when someone has a baby they know they can’t afford 😂 it’s madness!

I had a friend (no longer friends) who was living in one cramped and dirty room at her parents house (early twenties) had gotten herself into £50K of credit card debt shopping for designer items (she had a problem), her and DP had 0 hope of getting a home and were going nowhere, she couldn’t hold down even a pt bar job and was constantly signed off sick - so guess what....they had a baby!!!

Awesome!

KnightlyMyMan · 11/12/2018 13:40

Being a low income family - struggling but getting by with tax credits...etc- isn’t that pretty normal? It’s 100% not that which is the problem.

It’s just people who actively cannot provide the basics (a roof, food, clothes and love) but have a child anyway. That’s not fair!

But people seem to lump the two together on MN - it’s not the same!

Biancadelriosback · 11/12/2018 13:40

I fell pregnancy accidentally. I was on the pill and had been for over 10 years prior to falling pregnant. My DH (DP then) were both in stable jobs with an overall annual income of around £60k (ish), we rented a lovely, furnished flat and had plenty of disposable income (although no savings). We had been together for a number of years before hand. As young adult who lived independently, both being well aware that no contraception is 100% yet choosing to have sex anyways, we knew we would take responsibility for our actions and keep our baby. We saved to buy a house which we did when DS was 18 months and thanks to current affairs, we are a lot worse off than we were before hand.

You never know someone's actual circumstance. I don't promote the fact that we weren't trying for DS when I fell pregnant, if people ask I tell them of course he is very much loved and wanted because it's none of their business. You can judge away and think I've made a stupid decision by not "planning" everything, but I don't really give a shit

canigetaliein · 11/12/2018 13:44

As someone who grew up in extreme poverty, I think it's extremely selfish of those who have children regardless of their circumstances. I find this jarring when you own 2 rental properties, I would call that selfish. I’m not totally against 2nd home ownership & there is always a need for rentals.

bigKiteFlying · 11/12/2018 13:44

but I don't think there's anything wrong with having your children grow up with financial stability.

Is anyone really saying there is? I think people are more pointing out financial stability can be a shifting sand situation – everything looking great then you get hit by something unforeseeable.

Plus there can be downsides to waiting - failing fertlity less energy as well as upsides.

Some people’s financial situation is always going to tough and they gain nothing by waiting – in fact I know some families who did well by having the children earlier in life leaving them child free in 40 leaving them better off finically my IL would probably fall into this category.

I don't think the OP is wrong to wait - equally I think DH and I had children at perfect time for us which was prior to buying a house.

Graphista · 11/12/2018 13:45

The obsession with home ownership in uk I find weird. It's not essential to life at all, in many other countries it's absolutely not the norm inc ones where most could definitely afford to buy.

You ARE judging as pps have pointed out. MANY people will never be in a position to buy especially while corrupt politicians work to keep housing prices high.

Having children is not and should not be the preserve of the rich. Yes it's probably best not to have children and be careful with contraception if you're REALLY struggling... But life happens, contraception fails and I don't think the poor should be having abortions just because they're poor.

Personally I'm wondering if you're married? That can have a greater impact on mother & child than if their home is owned or rented.

There's never a perfect time to have children plus there's the biological clock factor - and that's not just for women. It's narrower for women but mens fertility declines too.

I had a strong feeling even before my first pregnancy that I'd have difficulties - based on gynae symptoms that were dismissed by Drs for many years, not Dx until after 2nd mc & then purely by chance. So I had it in my head I wanted first before 30. As it turns out it was one & only before 30 as my body doesn't do pregnancy and certainly not childbirth well (both almost died).

I've known people in real life delay ttc until all the circumstances were "right" and then ended up having to have Ivf (which can cost a fortune) or simply being unable to have DC because this has meant they left it too late biologically

Among my friends and family is a fairly even mix of young & older mums, planned, unplanned & assisted pregnancies. There's so many variations.

Even doing everything "right" is no guarantee of things working out. I was with my ex a few years before marrying, then married, dd came along 5 years in. We didn't own but as he was army that's not unusual as most are happy renting quarters while "in" and save money to buy in their preferred location when the serving person retires - there's often a lump sum paid around this time too. We were certainly comfortably off financially. No way I could have predicted his cheating, our divorce, his behaviour immediately after us splitting, my becoming disabled & Mentally ill, dd having a disability that wasn't Dx until she was almost high school age...

"Life is what happens when you're making other plans" or "if you want to make God laugh tell him your plans" (if you're a believer) is so true.

And you can NEVER "afford children" they always cost more than you think they will. Babies are actually quite cheap - teenagers are a bloody money pit!! If you sat & worked out how much they'd actually cost you'd never do it.

"And it’s unreasonable to say that the government should subsidise the care of 0-3 year olds more than it already does" many would disagree inc me. A well functioning economy/society needs to replace the people dying off. Yet uk govts (of all colours) seem ignorant to the fact that this means a well functioning economy/society needs to be supportive of families.

EITHER people need to earn enough to cover childcare costs or the other parent not working while the children are young enough to need supervision OR govt needs to provide cheaper childcare (without that meaning poorly paid childcare workers). Currently neither happens! Instead families are being pushed to the limits of their physical & mental health working stupid hours for shit pay just to cover basic living costs. The govt is subsidising rich employers paying artificially low wages by paying out in tax credits and childcare tax credits.

"why should a married couple who have no intention of having children be forced to contribute financially to the care costs of those who do?" Because they too benefit from those children being well cared for, educated & then as adults contributing to the society they live in.

Those on low incomes are generally MORE likely to think & plan before having DC are the effects of additional costs are more stark for them.

"We’re positively retrograde for not having it in the UK yet." Absolutely - excellent post all round.

ExcitedForChristmas18 · 11/12/2018 13:46

I think what the OP was maybe trying to say is that in a picture perfect world, she would get a mortgage, get married, DH and her have a good amount of money behind them, and then have children..and live happily ever after..
Everybody would pick that choice on life if they could, but life doesn't work like that. You can't plan your life. You never know what's around the corner.

WaitroseCoffeeCostaCup · 11/12/2018 13:46

Are you saying people that rent or live in a council house shouldn't have children Confused

Middlrm · 11/12/2018 13:47

Starfish36 I am sure what you meant
Is you are blessed that you have the potential to have a house on a mortgage and would ideally like that in place so you have secured that goal before children but feel like time is running out?

I understand as I was that person 2 and half years ago albeit I am older than you so time was much less on my side.

I was blessed that my parents allowed me to move back with them for 15 months as did my fiancé we had lived together 11 years at this stage but lived apart with our respective parents to get money together for a house and wedding, with less going out 15 months allowed a wedding and house purchase to happen in a much shorter time frame than if we continued to rent.

We brought our house last year December got married in the June and I am currently sleep deprived but happy with my 18 day old son.

If you are not as lucky with parents ability to assist as we were then you are still much younger than me and have time.

I am 35 years we started to stop trying not to be pregnant in feb ( me thinking it will take ages and I will likely not be pregnant at wedding and can enjoy my unlimited processco ... to being 4 months pregnant ) I got pregnant in February.

If we hadn’t moved back to parents likelihood is we would either still be saving or at least only just starting to look so if you can it will make the world of difference to take rent out of the equation.

Good luck with your goals x x

greendale17 · 11/12/2018 13:50

I agree OP.

Should breeding be a privilege for the rich only?

Why would people choose to knowingly bring a child into a world of poverty? Just so they can satisfy their need for a child. It is selfish.

canigetaliein · 11/12/2018 13:56

Being a low income family - struggling but getting by with tax credits...etc- isn’t that pretty normal? It’s 100% not that which is the problem.

Who draws the line? This is not my normal, I don’t know anyone who receives tax credits or even CB.

bumblebee39 · 11/12/2018 14:13

Those "low wages/living in council houses" are often the people who...

  1. Are the people answering your 999 call...
  2. And the paramedic driving the ambulance...
  3. And the nurse who takes their vitals and gives them their medicine...
  4. And the person behind the till when you buy a coffee in the hospital shop...
  5. And the taxi driver who then drives you home because you had to leave your car at home.

They are also the people whom...

  1. Look after your child at nursery...
  2. At breakfast club...
  3. At school they may be the TA or teacher...
  4. Then the after school club...
  5. Or who teaches them at their extra curricular activities.

They are the person who...

  1. Runs your antenatal classes...
  2. And the pregnancy Aqua class or Pilates you might attend...
  3. Or the physio who helps you with an injury you might sustain.

They fix your boilers, and build your houses, and nurse your children, and clean the hospitals and coffee shops and children centres. They run courses and as monster first aid and medical care and make our country run at all.
So yeah, why should they be allowed children???

But can you imagine having a child in a country without them?

Oh to be working class 🙄

canigetaliein · 11/12/2018 14:15

Completely agree bumblebee39

cadburysflake · 11/12/2018 14:18

I once had a conversation with my dad about this when I was about 20 and at uni doing my undergrad. My dad said to me "you will never have enough money or be ready to have children, if you wait for that day to come you will never have them". Now at the time I had an inflated ego and knew EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING and told my dad he was wrong and that you should only have children once you have enough money, married in your 4 bed detached, in a lovely area, with your high flying careers, I'm not sure how he kept a straight face Grin?!

Now 15 years on I'm married, I have a house and 2 small children, I understand what my dad meant. We could have been better off and in a better position before we had our children but unfortunately you don't have infinite time to have children. When we decided to go for it and have a baby we were in the process of buying our first home having saved hard for 5 years, I was studying for a higher degree and my husband decided to career change, we also got married that year. It was quite frankly the worse time to have a baby but I'm glad we didn't wait. I was already in my 30s and didn't want to put it off. A few years on we have another child and things are great. Really according to my 20 year old self I should only be considering a child in 5 years time when we will move to a bigger house and have a bigger income, by which time I'll probably be too old to get pregnant!

I don't say this often but my dad was right.

Youseethethingis · 11/12/2018 14:23

You never really own anything in life, it’s all a facade. One day you will die and then what you owned or didn’t own will not matter one jot. And it will all belong to the government if you don’t have kids, or make other plans. If you are lucky enough to have a family, I would say that is worth more than owning a home. Death can’t change, alter or undo that.
Or if, in your heart of hearts, you think that delaying having a baby might be because you don’t truly want one in the first place - don’t. It’s your life.
Gosh, that was quite philosophical of me...

ExcitedForChristmas18 · 11/12/2018 15:13

Well it 'Will matter one jot' our house, all our savings etc will be spilt between our two children 🤷‍♀️

hohohobags · 11/12/2018 15:27

The thing is you get the house on two salaries having saved for years then you have the baby and either go to one salary or have two with childcare costs ( unless you can do shifts/ use family)

I couldn't afford to return to work with no family support and DH working long hours/ away. Mainly due to childcare costs and travel ( we moved further out from London to afford naice house) So we struggle now but we have the naice house in SE to live in mortgage up to our eyeballs. We can't afford to leave the naice house. Is that sensible planning ... no not really ! But I waited until 35 to have a baby to do it. It's a risky game as you never know with fertility. I'm struggling with getting pregnant to have a second child now I'm pushing 40 and we can't afford it really.