Not picking people up for xmas?

[StephenQueenBooks]

I have been asked to pick up my brother, sil and their two kids (3 and 2) on Xmas day as they can't drive/get public transport. I don't drink so fine with this as my mum wants a tipple (I live with her just out of uni).

When I spoke to my brother about it last night I said we should all fit in even with the carseats and he said he didn't have any.

I told him I'm not having two toddlers in my car not in carseats because it's not safe and I don't want the fine. I said you either get car seats or you'll have to come a different day when you can get the bus. My mum is backing me up however him and my sil are annoyed saying it's their children and they don't mind them sitting on their knees.

Aibu to say no carseats, no lift? I've only just started driving last month and lifts are the bane of my life!

Backless booster seats are dangerous, full stop! They're legal from 15kg, approx 4 yrs, but thankfully being phased out after years of campaigning. A quick Google will show you why, but quick, blunt explaination is in a crash their heads will hit the side of the car with a force so high that car seat testing only use to be at 30mph (maybe still is, haven't checked for a while) because the damage at 30 at the wrong angle is just as irreparable as at 60mph.

Really can't stress enough how wrong it is that your Mum drives them around like this. Anything other than a full age appropriate car seat or under 15kg (4yrs) 3pt or 5pt harness and you should all be refusing to drive and calling police and Social Services.

As an aside my Mum's neighbour regularly drove her kids around without seats at a similar age. She called the police for advice and they said call 999 next time and they'd be straight out to catch her in the act and sort it. Similarly a friends daughter was in a crash with no car seats, thankfully 1 ok, 2 "just" broken bones, other issues too, just like your brother. No car seats was the final straw, all 3 kids removed to foster care immediately and a legal battle to get them into grandparents care - they'd have lost the battle if complicit in illegally driving them around...

But your mum uses car seats when she drives them around. Where are these car seats and why can't they be used on Christmas day?

Again. My mum never drives them around. She drives to their house and that's the only place she sees them.

A 15 minute drive would be the next town where I live it isn’t always walkable. It would involve national speed limit roads with no pavements plus busy roundabouts, I certainly wouldn’t walk that far where I live with two young children.

OP, you are a new driver and this would risk your licence, as previously said there is a higher than usual police presence and less traffic. 6 points and your licence disappears for a new driver and this would be serious points due to the danger involved. If someone hit you it is likely both children would be killed or seriously injured so I can’t believe their parents actually think that risk is ok.

Sorry, missed that, thought you said she'd be happy to pick them up on a different day, but wanted a drink at Christmas!

OP has already stated her mom does not give them lifts RTFT!

Only on MN do we get posters determined to put the boot in and suggest you're somehow disapproving of them, and secretly don't want them to come for Christmas.
Why on earth would you want to go to theirs, which we've already heard has had SS call, owing to the state of the place?
Stephen, you can't help people who won't help themselves. You've offered as much as you can.
But I will re-iterate what the other poster said, about making sure they don't lie about the seat. Can you imagine the emotional blackmail you'd be under, if you arrived to collect them and no seats and you made as if to drive away again without them? They'd be accusing you of leaving the kids for Christmas Day with no food in and it would all be presented as your fault. Be very very careful!!! I'd be wanting dated pictures with kids sitting in the "new" seats and a recognisable background as evidence!

I have some sympathy with them not wanting to buy car seats if they never go anywhere by car. I find the car seat industry a bit of a scaremongering racket, particularly the insistence that you should never use a secondhand one (yeah, right, just use more resources and contribute to more landfill), and very much resented the price I had to pay for the next-size-up after DS outgrew his travel cot. As we are car-free, I think the fucking thing got used all of five times in two years...

I think she just assumed they'd have car seats. I only found out today this morning when I brought it up that they were planning on using them as they didn't have any. She wouldn't be able to pick them up even if she wasn't drinking without car seats.

There’s no way I would have 2 young kids in my car without car seats. Can you borrow some from somewhere? (Though they should be doing this not you). Stick to your guns and refuse to do it.

Definitely have a look on local Facebook selling groups, or put a request message for one. I gave away a car seat for free on Facebook, I wanted to give it to a charity shop, but they are not allowed to take them.

Why don't people RTFT?!

I think she just assumed they'd have car seats

Non-driving unemployed drug users with social services involvement keep a pair of appropriately-sized child seats for the odd occasions they're travelling in cars? Have you considered purchasing this lovely bridge I have for sale?

I'd say no. If you are pulled over you'd get the fine. Kids have to be in seats for a reason, it's not safe to have them unrestrained in the back.

I'd ask around on your facebook to see if you could borrow 2, a lot of people don't go anywhere on Christmas Day so the chances are you could borrow some for the day.

Failing that they take the bus on Christmas Eve.

I wouldnt give them a lift either.

Just say you are sorry, but fortunately its illegal to drive without carseats and young children, and you won't take the risk.

They are almost 40 years old, they must be able to work out for themselves the options of either looking for a second-hand seat, borrowing or not coming. They shouldn't have to rely on you and family explaining every possible option of where to source them.

mothercare sells brand new seats for £45, they would last 2-8/10 years. and like others have said, most secondhand options are about £10 or free

My brother is employed but his wife is not so it's not like they have no money coming in at all.

I am not searching for a car seat for them on FB, they can do it themselves if they want to, I've suggested it to my brother.

They should be in car seats but really it’s family and sometimes you shouldn’t be worried about never seeing the money again, you should just pay 50 pound for two car seats for those poor children. Then keep the car seats in your mums case/ her house for driving them around.

It might not be op’s problem to fix, but for the sake of her nieces or nephews getting to have a nice Christmas it’s probably worth a Facebook post and a scroll through gumtree.

I'm a 21 year old straight out of uni, I have a job but I am saving for my own place. I have just passed my test so paid out for my car and all expenses with it (it's a bit of a banger but I love it 😁).

There is no way I can afford a car seat or two. I bought each of the kids a little present and the adults a little present too.

Your right there is no way children that young can be in your car without car seats. I am sure they can get some on a freesite or from friends for a loan off.

OP: I'm sensing the undercurrent of anger with them, but if no-one they know will lend them things because they come back stinking, and you are the driver and hence legally liable, in your place I'd be trying to borrow seats to go in your car that you then return unharmed after Christmas.
Depending where you are in the country there may be a local toy library which could lend you seats for a finite period with a returnable deposit.

you should just pay 50 pound for two car seats for those poor children

Yes, because at 21, the OP has shed loads of cash just lying around to spend on car seats for people who choose to spend their own money on weed .

I think it is important not to encourage or facilitate your brother and his wife in their irresponsible attitudes by doing everything for them. You’ve insisted on car seats, they have to find a way to make things work if they want Xmas at your mother’s.

OP - I can only think that those who think you should shell out £50 for a couple of car seats have never been 21 and just out of uni.

Why on earth should a 21 year old be responsible for a pair of feckless nearly 40 year olds.

If they care at all about having a family christmas then they can walk over. If they don't and they can't sort a loan of the car seats then their children will have to have christmas at home like the majority of other 2 and 3 year olds.

I fail to see why it is upt o to try and sort everything out

Leave it up to them, say something like "get some carseats and I'll give you lift, or you can walk or get the bus - your choice! Let me know if you get the car seats - check freecycle etc. Either way, I'm looking forward to seeing you on Christmas Day!"

and leave it at that... why get involved??