Not picking people up for xmas?

[StephenQueenBooks]

I have been asked to pick up my brother, sil and their two kids (3 and 2) on Xmas day as they can't drive/get public transport. I don't drink so fine with this as my mum wants a tipple (I live with her just out of uni).

When I spoke to my brother about it last night I said we should all fit in even with the carseats and he said he didn't have any.

I told him I'm not having two toddlers in my car not in carseats because it's not safe and I don't want the fine. I said you either get car seats or you'll have to come a different day when you can get the bus. My mum is backing me up however him and my sil are annoyed saying it's their children and they don't mind them sitting on their knees.

Aibu to say no carseats, no lift? I've only just started driving last month and lifts are the bane of my life!

DD's brother is almost 40, smokes weed and this is the kind of thing he'd do. Funny how these people who are lazy, entitled and rely on others are also weed smokers 🧐

YADNBU. They maybe happy to sit them on their knee (tho I can't understand why they would be happy to risk the lives of their children) but it is the drivers responsibility. Your license, your car, your rules.

So there's money for cigarettes and weed, but not for car seats for the kids.

I agree completely that they cannot travel in a car and without child seats but if they don't have a car, and are unlikely to ever own one, of course they don't have child car seats. Why would they?
Charity shops are often reluctant to accept secondhand car seats. We couldn't get rid of ours and two ended up down the tip.
It sounds like you and your mum are very kind people and you'll have to suggest your brother and his family wrap themselves up warmly and walk. They'll cope.

Reading that guidance he just needs one car seat for the 2 year old. The 3 year old can sit on the other side of the back seat with an adult seat belt. Adult in the middle of the two.

So... if they want to be with the family they just need to spend £25 (or borrow a car seat)

I think it's time to disengage. Mute them on social media, don't read their texts (or block for a while if you like) and just don't get caught up in the crazy.
You can't fix this. It's up to you if you choose to involve outside agencies in the hope that the children will be saved, but you can't make your brother see how stupid he is being, because he knows but just doesn't care.

"You're acting like a child, they're my kids, if you had your own I wouldn't tell you what to do with them."

I would answer:

And it's MY driving licence ! I will be the one fined or who will lose my licence if we are stopped with 2 children without car seats - not you. You seem to forget that I am the one doing YOU a favour.

I won't even approach the subject of the risk to your children's safety which you seem so blasé about.

If your MIL is willing to take the risk, I suggest you let her. More fool her if the police stop her though.

I know who I think is acting like a child - a selfish one at that!

Even beyond the breaking the law, what selfish and irresponsible parenting. Have they never taken the kids in a car before? FB sites have loads of baby stuff, also Freecycle.

Any parents caught travelling with a little one not strapped in properly deserves exactly what they have coming to them.

They sound like right scutters

I wouldn’t take them without a car seat. It’s not safe, not legal & police are out a lot over Xmas. As a new driver I don’t know how it impacts you’re license either.
I would put out fb requests to loan a seat, buy cheap
2nd hand or even on the gifting fb pages.

OP if there was an accident, you'd be the first one they would blame, and you just dont put any children at risk, never mind your own.

Tell them to stop buying drugs and try and bet better parents!

I can understand that they don’t want and can’t afford to buy car seats especially when they would probably get little use. Sometimes on local selling groups you can pick them up for free or for a few pounds. It’s also the sort of thing lots of people have lying around gathering dust and are only too happy to give away. Don’t drive the kids without seats but don’t fall out over it either. It can be sorted out.

On a broader note, there is a charity called Home Start who could support this family without necessarily involving SS. Sounds like they need help in prioritising the needs of their DC. Totally support your decision OP by the way, you and your mum sound very caring

I wouldn’t take them without car seats, good for you for standing your ground. I wouldn’t engage with them any more over this.

As a new driver I don’t know how it impacts you’re license either.
She would lose her license. If you get 6 points in the first 2 years, you lose your license. OP also wants to have a career in the police, so she would be scuppered there too.

Truth be told even if they got carseats now I wouldn't take them. There's no way they would know how to put them in correctly
Don't be stupid!! This is the most ridiculous comment of the day!

You are absolutely doing the right thing with refusing to take them without seat belts. However, for the sake of family harmony, giving these two kids better role models and future Christmases, I would look around for car seats for you and your mother to use in your cars only. As all your other siblings have children there has to be people in their networks who will have spare ones up in the loft to borrow, sell cheaply or give away. Just be warned, once you have the car seats you might be called upon more often for "important" lifts.

Next Christmas the 3 year old will probably fit a high backed booster, but the toddler will still need a toddler seat.

I'm sure you could/they could borrow car seats. If you happen to be near north London - I gave two that you can have - to keep -free.
Maybe give a shout on your neighbourhood Facebook for the sake of the 2 children, I'm sure it will be lively for you and your mother to have little ones there anyway.

OP - First of all do not react to the emotional blackmail. Women are socialised to be nice, agree with everyone, not cause a ruckus etc. Your brother is abusing that by trying to get you to break the law (in a scenario where you would be the one fined/imprisoned/getting the points on your licence if you ran into a Christmas Day patrol, and he would be scot free) for his convenience. You've resisted that, three cheers for you, don't feel any guilt about it or his nasty texts about "Boo hoo, we're not welcome, we're going to MIL instead". Sod him.

Second do you know the route your brother's MIL will be taking and when? If I were in your shoes I'd tip off the local gendarmes. See how much MIL likes bowing to these junkies' demands when she gets 6 points for it on Christmas Day. Maybe oh-so-accommodating MIL will then be severely slapped out of her enablement of these wasters.

And I've only just seen you want a career in the police - well, FGS, ten times more reason not to do as these idiots want.

The problem with habitual weed smokers, is that it makes them lazy and apathetic, they can’t be arsed most of the time and the only real point of getting up is to eat and smoke. I’m amazed your brother is still holding down his job, frankly.

You are definitely not unreasonable to refuse to drive them to your mums.

If it's a 15 minute drive. Why can't they walk?

Because they dont even clean their house for their kids to have a nice environment @MrsCplus so they are hardly going to put in any effort to walk for 40/50 mins when they can get a free lift

MrsC Because they don't want to.

It is NOT just about the legalities that's the least of it! There are 2 very young very vulnerable children here who are likely going to be travelling unsafely restrained at what is quite possibly the most dangerous time on U.K. Roads - possible icy roads + tired even possibly drunk/drugged drivers.

Honestly I'd be seriously considering contacting SS. This is indicative of a real lack of consideration for their safety.

What happened when SS were in touch with them last time op?

"Funny how these people who are lazy, entitled and rely on others are also weed smokers" and yet on mn myself and other anti ILLEGAL drug use posters are constantly told we're being uptown pearl clutches for hating this NOT HARMLESS drug!

"So there's money for cigarettes and weed, but not for car seats for the kids." Not even Christmas dinner for the kids apparently! Neglectful twats!