Should my DD fulfil obligation to ex employer even if it ruins our Christmas?

[MitohMit]

Name-changed for this WWYD involving a young person with MH difficulties.

After three months interning in a company abroad, our DD is coming home due to rapidly declining MH she is really no longer functioning at all won't pick up the phone, either to us or her employer.

She had committed to obtaining the correct papers before she left in order to allow her company to square their end-of-year reporting (they cannot have her on their books unless she has these papers, and had hired her on the understanding they would be obtained).

For a series of complicated reasons including her inability to get her act together (but also partly due to factors outside of her control), she has not yet obtained her papers. I think the failure to sort her papers has been both a consequence of and a contributing factor to her declining MH.

I've told her it should be a "point of honour" that she do everything to sort this, and we have hired a lawyer to help... however they require her to interrupt her Christmas at home and go back out on Boxing Day to attend a meeting with officials.

I think she should do this, even if it will be difficult. My DH thinks she should just come home and forget about the papers since she's not intending to go back. He reckons she can tell her company that she doesn't need to be paid so they can take her off the books and then nobody needs to show anyone her papers. She has not been paid so far since she never opened a bank account there, again, due to not having the documentation required.

I don't feel good about this and I feel it's a chance for a lesson about responsibility and doing the right thing.

We are thus in a bit of a quandary. I have asked the lawyers if the date can be changed to 28th December, which would present no problem, but as we await their response to this question my DH and I are not agreeing on what we'd do if the answer is no. My stance is we should arrange what will be a complicated trip out on Boxing Day (two flights and two trains instead of one direct flight), my DH says no.

So, WWYD? The complicating factor is, of course, my DD's MH which seems to be very precarious right now and is causing us huge worry. She is 21 yrs old.

I think it would probably be better for her MH to get whole thing tied up properly. If she doesn’t go back it will likely play on her mind, cause her anxiety and she may use it as a stick to beat herself with in her lower moments.

I can see both sides of this dilemma (i.e., leave it be or get the paperwork sorted out), but if she's feeling "disgusted with herself" about the unresolved paperwork, I'd be inclined to ask for a meeting on the 28th and get it sorted out. The sense of achievement (I DID get it done) could be a real boost for her.

I've suffered from anxiety (much better now, had some therapy and on medication) and also found paperwork or anything legal really difficult to cope with. I usually felt much better when I did get it done, though.

Obviously, if she's not well enough, just leave it. Her health is the primary concern. Sending to you all.

Thanks again everyone!

To answer re the pay question and why I didn't ask the lawyer... firstly, as I explained previously, the question of money is the last thing on my mind and we have told DD that she mustn't worry about that. Secondly, it really is for DD to ask the lawyer herself if she feels it's important enough.

I'm not bossing her around at all, I am extremely solicitous about her MH though and about her triggers. So I am presenting her with the various options and asking her what she thinks she might prefer, helping her think through the consequences be they immediate or longer-term. She knows that whatever she chooses we will support her.

I'm really glad I've posted on here as I have begun to see things quite differently. Although I've really appreciated the comments from posters who thought that sorting her papers might help her feel better about herself, I can see that the consensus is weighted towards my DH's stance and so I am now moving that way too.

Whatever happens will be her decision. But I will certainly not use the "point of honour" talk with her again (I admit, I did use it once and I now regret it).

The university question is a very difficult one. She was meant to get their help but failed to do so. They won't talk to her parents as she is an adult. So we can't step in there and get that side (university support) sorted for her. Also, it's looking quite likely she won't finish her degree as her second year was a complete non-event academically and she has decided the course is not right for her.

I am completely shocked that people above think it is at all appropriate for her to travel to this meeting.

OP, your daughter is ill, possibly very ill. I think you should consider whether an attitude to work which means your daughter overrides her mental health problems because of a feeling of guilt or whatever is in part due to your lack of understanding of how devastating and dangerous MH issues can be.

At best offer a Skype call when your daughter is well enough. Otherwise, write to the company outlining why it is completely inappropriate that she attends. Under no circumstances should it be hanging over her.

You need to help her to learn how to put her MH first.

I am pretty appalled by some of the posts above actually...

Can't you or DH sort the papers for her either as a proxy or a power of attorney? I'd definitely frame it to DD that it's very much the company's responsibility that this hasn't been sorted after so many meetings. It sounds as though your DD is seeing this as a personal failure but it sounds as though there are wider organisational issues.

In the context of her health concerns, I don't think the papers are important so if neither you nor DH can fix this. Then I'd gently let the matter drop (and possibly raise the issues with whoever organised the placement.)

Postpone the decision. She's not well enough to make it and neither you nor your husband should make it for her.

It needs be, send medical evidence that she is currently too unwell to return; and when she feels a bit better, see if she wants to return and sort her paperwork then or if she just wants to move on.

Dependent on the country; it may not be as easy as not needing to register her if she wasn't paid, but they will absolutely be able to wait for her to be well enough to sort it out and understand any potential consequences that she's not aware of yet.

For now; she comes home and the focus is on getting better, nothing to do with work or meetings on Boxing Day, or pressure. I hope she recovers quickly

Oh, and the importance of the papers... they are important to her employers. They would be important to her if she intended to stay on and continue working, but she doesn't, she wants to come home.

So as things currently stand, from our pov the papers are not important to her.

That said, she could change her mind about coming home but I hope and pray that she won't. She has periods where she thinks she's doing OK and doesn't need any help. The she goes downhill, typically.

Also

"So I am presenting her with the various options and asking her what she thinks she might prefer, helping her think through the consequences be they immediate or longer-term. She knows that whatever she chooses we will support her"

With the greatest respect this is not 'understanding' what is happening to your daughter. She may well be in a state where she cannot possibly consider 'various options' and this only puts her under more stress.

'Choice' may not be something she is capable of right now.

It sounds like the company took the risk (of fines perhaps for non-compliance) of employing an foreign, unpaid intern, without the required legal documentation. Now they’re putting pressure on your DD to play catch up with the docs and she has had problems (for various reasons) with securing them. If that’s right, then I’d say she has no obligation to the company. The risk sat with them all along.

As for your DD, please don’t allow anyone to make her feel guilty about it. She’s done her bit despite illness, to try and get what was required, and they didn’t adequately support her. So they didn’t mitigate the risk.

I’d say it’s your DD’s choice whether she return. If she Doesn’t want to go though, don’t make her.

I think I have a fairly good grasp of MH issues.

I have already mentioned my brother, whose MH declined rapidly after he left a job and has only recovered since getting himself a new position.

I also know from my own experience how having a routine and sense of purpose is important for mental well-being.

Sorry I'm with your DH - if she is not accepting payment then that is enough. Her mental health is more important.
Please look at this video on female Aspergers and see if this fits her. Struggling to do admin can be a trait.

OP, obviously this is a difficult situation for the whole family and I feel for all of you. My DS has suffered from anxiety (I appreciate that's not as bad as your DD) and needed family help and support to sort a situation that might have affected his future. Happily we got him help, it got sorted and he is doing really well.

FWIW i think you sound like a very caring and loving mother and I hope everything works out for all of you.

For me it'd depend on which country it was.

@lucy101101

Please don't judge other posters too much, MH is such a complex area and we're all trying to help the OP. Those of us who've suggested they should get the paperwork sorted out are only wondering if it would boost her DD's self-esteem.

The OP's latest post about her DD's rough second year at uni makes me realise that her DD is probably more ill than I originally thought.

Now I know this, it might be best to forget about the paperwork.

She is ill
Teaching her a lesson is not needed right now - prioritising your daughters well being and mentally health should be your only focus

Tell her employer she's not returning and to waiver her pay if that's the answer but for goodness sake please put your daughter and her health first - not is not the time to be teaching lessons on responsibilities

If she has MH issues then she should stay home. If she was an unpaid intern then they can take her off their books.

Poor thing.
And poor you.
Bring her home and help her to get the help she needs op.
The money comes way low down (as you’ve said previously).
Her health comes first.

When you say officials, who do you mean exactly?
If the officials know she has been working and hasnt sorted a permit - does that leave her or the company liable to prosecution for illegal employment?
If it's the officials who need the papers, if she doesn't sort it will she be liable to prosecution for not complying with the authorities?

What would the consequences be? Is it just never working for this company again? Or if she won't provide the correct permits etc she might find herself barred from entering the country again. Ok, now she wants to go home, but what in the future?
I think you need proper advice from someone who knows the ins and outs of the country where she is.

I’m with your husband

AmICrazyorWhat2, I hope I am not judging, but I do think that many posters have no real understanding of MH issues. The repercussions of poor advice in respect of someone with serious MH issues don't bear thinking about. I say this as someone who has been in the OP's situation, her daughter's situation and have adult friends who have lost their children to suicide.

Thank you everyone for your support. Thanks especially Ambs81 for your story.

Lucy, she is 21 so she is insisting on making her own choices, as she has every right to do. We have done enough family therapy and individual psychologists consultations to know that it's important she feels she is making her own decisions. You may feel otherwise but we are being guided by professionals who know her and have worked with her.

Ittakes, I will look, thanks, and Athena and everyone else who's expressed sympathy and support, thank you again.

Halfwit, it's Spain - Madrid to be precise. Christmas will be in the north of England a bit off the beaten track.

Having a routine and sense of purpose is great... until it's more demanding than you're well enough to cope with and it instead becomes a weight around your ankles pulling you deeper and deeper beneath the waves.

By the way, she can give her university permission to talk to you if she feels that’ll help sort out that side of things.

I was with you until I got to the part about her not having been paid. That changes things. I agree with your husband, they should just be able to take her off the books.

^this. Sod it.

I don't know if they can just take her off the books - what about the projects she has been working on?

I have personal experience of dealing with people suffering MH issues, as well as at work. Sometimes, you do have to get the stuff that is bothering them done and out of the way - especially as the OP's DD felt she'd achieved something when she'd done part of it, you want to build on that success. And the OP knows that her DD is capable of doing it normally - it would seem that her DD has been having MH difficulties for some time now if she wouldn't engage with her Uni's services either. It doesn't sound like this is a one-off that you can draw a line under and move on. It would be nice to have a success to look back on.

It is beyond frustrating and worrying for the OP as her DD is an adult and doesn't have to engage with the services no matter how much you want her to. She may come back and do the same, unfortunately. I hope that's not the case and she does engage with a service who can support and help her, and that the OP gets some support too.

I think you should listen to your brother as he has had his own struggles, but also because he knows her. Yes the papers are not important but will it become another thing to beat herself with in the future as a pp said? I would return with her to sort out the papers, then bring her home to work on her health.