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Original poster

Should my DD fulfil obligation to ex employer even if it ruins our Christmas?

174 replies

MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:00

Name-changed for this WWYD involving a young person with MH difficulties.

After three months interning in a company abroad, our DD is coming home due to rapidly declining MH she is really no longer functioning at all won't pick up the phone, either to us or her employer.

She had committed to obtaining the correct papers before she left in order to allow her company to square their end-of-year reporting (they cannot have her on their books unless she has these papers, and had hired her on the understanding they would be obtained).

For a series of complicated reasons including her inability to get her act together (but also partly due to factors outside of her control), she has not yet obtained her papers. I think the failure to sort her papers has been both a consequence of and a contributing factor to her declining MH.

I've told her it should be a "point of honour" that she do everything to sort this, and we have hired a lawyer to help... however they require her to interrupt her Christmas at home and go back out on Boxing Day to attend a meeting with officials.

I think she should do this, even if it will be difficult. My DH thinks she should just come home and forget about the papers since she's not intending to go back. He reckons she can tell her company that she doesn't need to be paid so they can take her off the books and then nobody needs to show anyone her papers. She has not been paid so far since she never opened a bank account there, again, due to not having the documentation required.

I don't feel good about this and I feel it's a chance for a lesson about responsibility and doing the right thing.

We are thus in a bit of a quandary. I have asked the lawyers if the date can be changed to 28th December, which would present no problem, but as we await their response to this question my DH and I are not agreeing on what we'd do if the answer is no. My stance is we should arrange what will be a complicated trip out on Boxing Day (two flights and two trains instead of one direct flight), my DH says no.

So, WWYD? The complicating factor is, of course, my DD's MH which seems to be very precarious right now and is causing us huge worry. She is 21 yrs old.

OP posts:
PinguDance · 09/12/2018 18:19

Well after your update I’d be in total agreement with your husband and sacking off the spares completely, if after 7 meeting her employers weren’t able to sort it out or help her they rather brought this on themselves.

VictoryOrValhalla · 09/12/2018 18:19

I think it would probably be better for her MH to get whole thing tied up properly. If she doesn’t go back it will likely play on her mind, cause her anxiety and she may use it as a stick to beat herself with in her lower moments. I’ve been there. I know how these things can affect you. I think you should support her to close the book properly. For her own MH. 2 (ish) weeks and it’s done versus this being a source of guilt for a long time.

KirstyJC · 09/12/2018 18:19

Also it seems from the thread title that your worry about her returning is that it will ruin Christmas. If I were you I would be more worried it would ruin your dad's mental health! You don't seem very aware of mental illness or perhaps you are trying to downplay things but it seems like you don't have your priorities right...

NameChangerAmI · 09/12/2018 18:20

If there will be no legal repercussions for your DD, I would let her walk away and seek medical help for her MH.

I think she needs empathy and lots of love. What can be achieved by making her attend another meeting? She has surely learned her lesson.

10PollyPockets · 09/12/2018 18:20

I agree with your dh, if she hasnt been paid shes not really an employee and if she has no account they aren't going to pay her now anyway. I would get her home and say she isn't coming back and wont be providing paperwork so just to remove her details because she was never paid anyway. Who would be paying for her to fly back and for the lawyers?

impostersyndrome · 09/12/2018 18:20

If it was my 21 year old, I’d be wholly with your dh on this. If we’re going to discuss moral obligation, it is the company who should have kept an eye on your DD’s health, not put her through all those meetings, let alone not paying during this period. She should not be made to feel obliged to fly back, certainly not on Boxing Day. Sorry, but that’s a mad idea.

Original poster
MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:21

Wow, that's nice happypie. I have flown out to be with her four times in the past three months, spent lots of time (literally weeks) taking her to doctors, psychiatrists and psychologists, attending two of her official meetings with her (bit of a language barrier for me but still). I tried hard to persuade her to come home with me each time I saw her (and she was having none of it initially, but at my last visit this weekend has recapitulated).

You have no idea of the lengths both my husband and I have gone to to help her. However, she is 21 and able to make her own decisions. Getting her sectioned is not a possibility btw.

She often says she feels quite disgusted with herself for not sorting this out earlier.

OP posts:
VictoryOrValhalla · 09/12/2018 18:24

She often says she feels quite disgusted with herself for not sorting this out earlier.

She will feel so Much better when she gets it sorted. But not until.

HellenaHandbasket · 09/12/2018 18:24

I agree with your DH totally. I would support her in sorting before or after of course.

ASAS · 09/12/2018 18:24

She's ill. Let her get better and sort it with a healthy head.

Papers aren't a life and death matter. Recovering from a MH crisis can be. Please, I implore you. If you push this she may never turn to you in future difficulties.

Take care x

MerryMarigold · 09/12/2018 18:24

I'm going to speak plainly as it doesn't seem like you yourself have suffered from depression.

You need to massively up your compassion and empathy if your dd is coming home. Teaching her a 'lesson in responsibility' when she's already so fragile she doesn't want to pick the phone up to you. Man! Does that not break your heart? Give her a break. I totally agree with your dh and in relieved she has him in her life.

shouldwestayorshouldwego · 09/12/2018 18:24

Also how much would she actually be paid in comparison to the cost of the flight? I think that you just have to say no to 26th. Is she even going to be able to fly back and sort it?

BaronessBomburst · 09/12/2018 18:24

I think the company are at fault for employing someone without the correct paperwork, and not supporting the employee to sort it out. They haven't paid her, didn't set her up with a bank account, and expect her to pay for flights?
No way. They have taken advantage of her.
She should stay home and recover and they can sort out their own mess.
And if it makes any difference, I have, and still do, work abroad.

Polarbearflavour · 09/12/2018 18:26

Have I missed something? It’s JUST a job and your daughter is really unwell. And she hasn’t been paid. Confused

What obligation do you owe this company?

Original poster
MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:27

Victory, I think you have hit on something there. As I said, she feels she has mucked up her work placement, her university course... and now, she feels she can't sort out her papers. Yet just a few days ago she went to a preliminary meeting where you get one of the papers that then allows you to apply for the permit, and she came out very happy because she had been successful.

I am actually very aware of MH issues as have a sibling who suffers terribly and has taught me a lot. He also worries that if she doesn't get her papers this whole episode abroad will feel like a failure from start to finish.

OP posts:
MerryMarigold · 09/12/2018 18:27

She is probably feeling disgusted with herself for anything and everything. Your job is to say it's really not important and she shouldn't worry at all about it, not push her to sort it out.

PinguDance · 09/12/2018 18:27

@victoryorvalhalla, not necessarily, I’ve been there too and sometimes dropping something really is the best thing to do - it’s not rational to be disgusted with yourself for not doing admin, especially when she has tried. That is not rational thinking and making yourself miserable over inconsequential paperwork is not helpful.

Original poster
MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:29

Thanks ASAS. I appreciate your pov and your sensitivity.

I really don't think I can be accused of lacking in compassion. DD has told both of us several times in family therapy that she feels tremendously loved and supported, has never felt any question about that.

OP posts:
MudCity · 09/12/2018 18:29

I would definitely aim for the 28th because travel arrangements will be easier. I hope they agree this for you all, taking account of your daughter’s mental health and transport issues on 26th.

By going on 28th you are still supporting your daughter to sort this out (which I agree needs to be done).

ArcheryAnnie · 09/12/2018 18:30

I'm with all of those thinking that it's OK for her to spend some time getting well, then looking at the paperwork. If she'd broken a leg then she might have to wait before attending a meeting, and that wouldn't be seen as a "failure". This should be no different.

VictoryOrValhalla · 09/12/2018 18:31

it’s not rational to be disgusted with yourself for not doing admin, especially when she has tried. That is not rational thinking and making yourself miserable over inconsequential paperwork is not helpful.

Anxiety is rarely rational. She isn’t making herself miserable. Her illness makes her feel miserable.

Starfish28 · 09/12/2018 18:32

What does you DD want to do? If she is desperate to return then I would support that. If she isn’t, then I would not be forcing the point at all. She needs to get well and then face things. I do think it’s important that you do not make her feel like a failure. But a huge good luck that sounds awful all round

pasturesgreen · 09/12/2018 18:35

Sorry, I'm with your DH on this.

Would it even be worth her while going back (ie, is she eventually going to be paid at least what she'll spend travelling back there?). It seems like a huge palaver (lawyers, complicated travel arrangements...) at what is a very difficult time for your DD, for not much reward at all.

Original poster
MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:36

Thanks for all your comments. Especially Sofia, that is incredibly kind but it's not the USA, it's much closer to home!

I am taking it all on board. We will definitely talk it through with her as soon as she decides to pick up the phone. At the very latest we'll see her on the 23rd. I can't wait to hug her and tell her that we want her to do whatever makes her feel best.

If she keeps her word and comes home for good, we have a very serious programme sorted out for her recovery. We are of course taking this MH thing very seriously and feel absolutely gutted that she's been hiding her suffering from us for so long.

OP posts:
PinguDance · 09/12/2018 18:36

@victoryorvalhalla - I know, feeling disgusted with herself is not actually about the paperwork, doing the paperwork may or may not make her feel better but it’s not going to make her anxiety go away. So... why is it important for her to do it? Given the circumstances as described it really doesn’t sound like the value of staying and doing it ‘to prove something to herself’ is actually more than coming home and sacking it off.