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AIBU?

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Original poster

Should my DD fulfil obligation to ex employer even if it ruins our Christmas?

174 replies

MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:00

Name-changed for this WWYD involving a young person with MH difficulties.

After three months interning in a company abroad, our DD is coming home due to rapidly declining MH she is really no longer functioning at all won't pick up the phone, either to us or her employer.

She had committed to obtaining the correct papers before she left in order to allow her company to square their end-of-year reporting (they cannot have her on their books unless she has these papers, and had hired her on the understanding they would be obtained).

For a series of complicated reasons including her inability to get her act together (but also partly due to factors outside of her control), she has not yet obtained her papers. I think the failure to sort her papers has been both a consequence of and a contributing factor to her declining MH.

I've told her it should be a "point of honour" that she do everything to sort this, and we have hired a lawyer to help... however they require her to interrupt her Christmas at home and go back out on Boxing Day to attend a meeting with officials.

I think she should do this, even if it will be difficult. My DH thinks she should just come home and forget about the papers since she's not intending to go back. He reckons she can tell her company that she doesn't need to be paid so they can take her off the books and then nobody needs to show anyone her papers. She has not been paid so far since she never opened a bank account there, again, due to not having the documentation required.

I don't feel good about this and I feel it's a chance for a lesson about responsibility and doing the right thing.

We are thus in a bit of a quandary. I have asked the lawyers if the date can be changed to 28th December, which would present no problem, but as we await their response to this question my DH and I are not agreeing on what we'd do if the answer is no. My stance is we should arrange what will be a complicated trip out on Boxing Day (two flights and two trains instead of one direct flight), my DH says no.

So, WWYD? The complicating factor is, of course, my DD's MH which seems to be very precarious right now and is causing us huge worry. She is 21 yrs old.

OP posts:
Original poster
MitohMit · 09/12/2018 18:39

Sorry, I keep forgetting to address the money issues.

I have no idea what she'd get paid, and it's not our top consideration. We've shelved out a lot of money so far in order to help her feel better, and are expecting there is quite a bit more to come. So we wouldn't be encouraging her to go back in order to get the money.

OP posts:
LucheroTena · 09/12/2018 18:39

This is crazy, she’s unwell and been working for free? And they’ve given her no support? They can bog off. Also, it’s her decision anyway, she’s 21. Maybe you need to butt out of bossing her about.

VictoryOrValhalla · 09/12/2018 18:41

It says individual pingu. I know for me this would be a source of massive anxiety and guilt and would hang over me for years. I have things in my past that to anyone here would seem like nothing and I still beat myself up over them. Entirely possible I’m projecting here, but also it’s a perspective that may be applicable to OPs DD so I’m sharing it. If it can help then I’d rather suggest it than keep it to myself.

OP what does your DD want to do? What does she think will make her feel better.

onalongsabbatical · 09/12/2018 18:43

As someone who's had mh problems all my life AND a terror of that kind of paperwork I'd say, given the circumstances, let it go. Honestly I think if she sees that you think her well-being is more important than rule following it could really help her get those kind of thing in perspective.

And you sound lovely and supportive, OP.
Honestly the company sound like they've been hugely unsympathetic and not really very efficient themselves, why should she have to suffer for this?

christmas2018 · 09/12/2018 18:43

Her MH is more important
The priority should be to get her home and look after her not to teach her s lesson about responsibilities etc

Lunde · 09/12/2018 18:44

If she is very unwell can she submit a medical certificate to cancel or postpone the meeting?

KurriKurri · 09/12/2018 18:45

She doesn't really owe anything to people who haven't paid her (up to them to sort her pay not her).

She's ill. Replace mental illness with any kind of serious physical illness - one that put her in hospitla or made her weak, in bed, immobile, in pain etc. And no one would be suggesting she is fit to attend a meeting on boxing day.

She should tell her employers she will attend a meeting when she is well, whenever that may be. Nothing terrible will happen because they have to wait a while.
Or as your Dh suggests let the whole thing go.there is no moral obligation here. Any decent employer should have a duty of care for the wellbeing of it's empoyees. your DD has received very little support for her health problems by the sound of it.

She wants to come home, she's 21 and unwell, - get her home. Nothing else really matters.

TheHodgeoftheHedge · 09/12/2018 18:45

However, my DH thinks since they have not paid her and she is likely to be happy to waive her pay, they could feasibly just not put her on the reports and therefore not have to show her permit number.

Surely that’s a question for your lawyer?! How/why on earth have you hired one and not asked that basic question?

Pachyderm1 · 09/12/2018 18:46

God, it sounds like she’s been badly taken advantage of if she hasn’t been paid anything for 3 months.

You need to help her get on top of her mental health, and to be honest talking about her obligations isn’t the way to do that. If she had a debilitating physical illness you wouldn’t be expecting her to take two flights and two trains. You don’t understand the reality of mental illness if you’re treating it so differently to a physical illness.

I think you should be supporting her in telling her employers that she is too unwell to travel out on Boxing Day, but might be well enough to attend on another day.

SushiMonster · 09/12/2018 18:47

She needs to come home and forget about it, she hasn’t been paid so the company aren’t loosing out.

Iloveautumnleaves · 09/12/2018 18:47

If they say no to your ‘request’ I would simply go back to them and tell them her MH is more important and that she cannot be there on the 26th so they need to reschedule. They have two options, DD returns on a mutually agreeable date to sort out the paperwork, or she doesn’t. Their choice ‍🤷🏻‍♀️

Them requesting she goes on the 26th is ridiculous. She needs a break and the flights/travel will be dreadful. None of you need that stress.

It sounds like you’ve tried really hard, and I agree it would probably be good for her to ‘achieve’ this, but I don’t think going on the 26th is the answer.

Sparkyduchess · 09/12/2018 18:47

In all truth, her employer has massively let her down.

They’ve allowed her to work, knowing they weren’t paying her, whilst knowing her mental health is declining. They have a duty of care they have failed.

Now, when they’re doing the usual frantic year end scramble to tie up loose sends, they want her to fix a problem they shouldn’t have allowed to exist in the first place.

I’d be saying bollocks to it and walking away.

Pachyderm1 · 09/12/2018 18:49

I also think that as she’s 21 she can decide for herself.

Atalune · 09/12/2018 18:50

If this is a work placement through her course, what support is she getting from them?

IfUndeliveredPleaseReturnTo · 09/12/2018 18:51

If the internship was part of her university course, and particularly if it was arranged via the university, I would think you should also be in touch with the university. At least they need to know of the problems around the paperwork with this company, at best they may be able to help.

5fivestar · 09/12/2018 18:57

Will it stop her visiting that country again in the future ? If not they can shove it where it fits, they don’t seem very concerned about your daughters well being

DishingOutDone · 09/12/2018 19:00

I'm surprised you feel you have to ask. The firm sound like they have behaved pretty shabbily. But you seem to be taking everyone's comments on board so I just hope you can be there for your daughter, rather than some corporate she's got involved with. Priorities eh? Hmm

dippledorus · 09/12/2018 19:00

Have you contacted her uni?

waterandlemonjuice · 09/12/2018 19:01

Have only read your OP but I’d let her off the hook on this.

Pliudev · 09/12/2018 19:02

I find it extraordinary that a person with MH problems is having this amount of pressure put on them not only by a company that have had the benefit of her working without pay for three months but from a parent. If your daughter is as ill as you describe, your responsibility is to her and your priority should be to get her home and get her the help she needs to recover.

MilkyCuppa · 09/12/2018 19:02

Consequences if there are no papers... for my daughter, nothing really
There’s your answer. Tell them to do one, it’s no skin off your nose if they don’t have the right papers! They should have thought about it before now and it’s their own fault that they haven’t. I can’t believe you’d put yourself out of pocket to solve a problem they’ve created.

FFSFFSFFS · 09/12/2018 19:03

If she broke her leg would you be expecting her to walk 10 flights of stairs to her job? It's kind of the mental equivalent. If no ramifications for her or really for the company this is an excellent lesson for her in self care and prioritising her own well being.

I wonder ow much if this is you projecting your own anxieties and concern that someone might think your daughter isn't doing "the right thing". If you're honest with yourself I bet that's a big part of it. Prioritise your daughter

SassitudeandSparkle · 09/12/2018 19:04

I'm just getting a sense of a backstory here that hasn't been said about the importance of the papers - they do sound very important.

Could you go over with her and sort it out? I do think it would help her to get it sorted tbh, and as I said, I think this paperwork must be pretty important and could cause issues in the future if it's not properly dealt with now.

MerryMarigold · 09/12/2018 19:05

I think
A. It's often hard to make decisions at times when your MH is low. "What will make you feel better?" isn't that helpful. "If I were you, I wouldn't bother with this paperwork because of a,b,c,d reasons" is much more helpful. Give her a rationale for not needing to worry or feel guilty about it.
B. As a pp said, and I agree, she will feel like failure because of the illness, not because of the papers. If papers are sorted, it will be something else. It's not going to magically make her better that the papers get sorted.
C. You can feel very helpless when you're in that dark place. She needs to feel empowered that chucking this admin in is actually a good idea and ideally her idea, rather than feeling she ought to, but she can't/ is overwhelmed. That's where you come in, OP, because it sounds like YOU think she ought to. If you can get your head to think she actually shouldn't sort this, it will help her enormously I think. Currently she feels a disappointment to work, herself and you.

Ambs81 · 09/12/2018 19:06

This thread reminded me of a situation I was in aged 21/21...

I took an under graduate placement year with a very prestigious, global fashion brand. It was literally the dream placement.

I was already suffering some MH issues, and had been seeing a CBTheripist for the odd session, I had anxiety (agitated depression diagnosis, linked to abuse in childhood), I was taking citalapram through my studies and at the start of the placement.

By about month 3 I was at rock bottom, and in such a bad place. On top of the severe anxiety I started to have depressive symptoms (crying, not getting out of bed, no motivation, etc) I could feel myself slipping further and further down, whilst around me people would say 'wow, well done, you're working for xxxx'. This then made me feel such a fake.

I once bumped into an old school friend, and she said 'i heard your working at xxx', i just replied 'i hate my life', and i really meant it.

My parents and family constantly told me to honour my contract, stick with it, grit my teeth, told me it was character building. They told me it would effect future job prospects if i left, and it would be a black mark on my work history.

My boyfriend, now husband, was the only person in my life to say f**k it, don't honour a commitment to something that makes you truly miserable.

More then a decade on, my MH is great, I have a very successful career and have never looked back.

The moral of the story, and my advice to you, is to prioritise your daughter's mental health - she has many, many years and opportunities ahead of her to focus on her career and/or education. Just get her home and tell her to never look back.