Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

999 replies

Badmoonsarising · 07/12/2018 14:20

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/12/2018 16:25

It makes me uncomfortable as it reminds me of the fear around homosexuality back in the 80s Given that being homosexual is seen as being transphobic I don't think you have to worry that MNers are homophic or acting in the same way.

Many gay men and women are realising just how invidious trans ideology is - note that is NOT the same as transpeople.

Trans ideology insists that a lesbian who refuses to sleep with a transwoman who wants to have sex with a woman is being transphobic. After all their penis is a female penis. Sadly that isn't even a joke!

And yes, you will notice that almost all of that is about transwomen! That is because very few of the TRA and Stonewall publications is about transmen! Thought there is an increasing number of men having babies and wanting to legally be registered as the father, not allowing their inherent femaleness to be acknowledged.

The mangling of the language is just the beginning of the dismantling of science, laws etc. And it is already happening Lots of things that supposedly would never happen are happening all over the world, right now!

TeaEnjoyingRadiantFeminist · 07/12/2018 16:25

How are feminists supposed to deal with women's issues if the words 'woman' and 'female' have no concrete definition?

Its pretty impossible to help the people feminists are trying to help if they can no longer be defined properly.

We are in a position of potentially being able to influence the law and protections for women and girls in a very real way at the moment so of course it's being heavily discussed Confused the other issues aren't going anywhere any time soon, the law suddenly isn't going to change in relation to, eg, sexual assault specifically but discussions and the actions of feminists on these boards are directly linked to preventing sexual assaults, injury, and discrimination against women. It captures all of it. It's not about the trans individuals, it's about WOMEN and fighting for our rights.

Moknicker · 07/12/2018 16:27

YABU.
If the shoe fits .....
The transhate comments on here are terrible, ignorant and Im surprised its tolerated.

PositivelyPERF · 07/12/2018 16:27

It makes me uncomfortable as it reminds me of the fear around homosexuality back in the 80s

There’s absolutely no comparison between being homosexual, bi or lesbian. Those people who are attracted to those of the same sex don’t try to impose on heterosexuals that they must agree to sleep with same sex people and gay men do not demand access to female spaces, sports, wards, etc. Lesbians don’t demand that men have sex with them, however are accused of being transphobic if they don’t want to sleep with man who believes he is a lesbian woman, while retaining their penis. Look up ‘the cotton ceiling’.

They don’t demand that we must change our language and follow their beliefs. They don’t demand that we don’t talk about periods, breastfeeding or other women’s issues. The point is, they DEMAND nothing from us but the right to live in peace.

Allaboutmeandyou · 07/12/2018 16:29

Trans ideology insists that a lesbian who refuses to sleep with a transwoman who wants to have sex with a woman is being transphobic. After all their penis is a female penis. Sadly that isn't even a joke!

Not all trans people think like that as well as not all feminists think like you.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/12/2018 16:29

Moknicker quote one of those transhate comments

Just one!

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 16:29

Eh? The day someone is sued for saying that a neo vagina isn’t the same as a biologicals woman vagina will be a very dark day.

I find it so insulting when it’s said that a neo vagina is a ‘fully functioning’ vagina when what they mean is that a penis can fit in it and it’s suitable for sex.
My vagina is a bit more complicated than that and it’s purpose is not as a penis seath. I have never given birt out of my vagina, I don’t know if I will or if I can but that’s a pretty important function of a vagina, it also has an amazing blend of bacteria and self cleans. A neo vagina can’t do any of those things.

Doesn’t it say more about the way people see vaginas when they claim that a neo vagina is the same.

I actually know loads of trans people, i grew up in the gay scene as my mother was a lesbian. And it’s only recently the narrative has changed, it used to be transsexuals want to live presenting as a woman but they are biologically Male. Gender is a construct but biological sex is real. The whole thing has gone mad recently and I promise you it’s not just bigots who think so, lots of my trans friends feel horrified by what’s going on in their name.

Allaboutmeandyou · 07/12/2018 16:29

Moknicker quote one of those transhate comments

I already have.

wrenika · 07/12/2018 16:29

Mumsnet is a hive of carefully worded transphobia. It's the worst forum I've ever been on for people being asshats towards others.

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 16:30

So those of you that are transohoic and refuse to allow men to become women

Men cannot become women. It is an impossibility. It cannot ever happen.

It's not us refusing it, nature refuses it.

JudasPrudy · 07/12/2018 16:31

'It makes me uncomfortable as it reminds me of the fear around homosexuality back in the 80s'

No. Gay people just wanted to be accepted as just that. The true parallel would be if homosexuals in the 80s said that they are straight. And that gay people are straight people, and all reference to heterosexuality should be erased so as not to offend the gay people who are straight people.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/12/2018 16:31

Allabout Did you miss the part where I said, clearly, that the issue is not with transindividuals but transideology? Oh look! First two words of the quoted text Trans ideology

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 16:32

And by the way, that is my opinion as a woman.

How do you even know you are a woman?

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 16:32

Not all trans people think like that as well as not all feminists think like you.

No but that’s the end game of self identified trans women being literal women exactly the same as any other women. If we start the conversation with that point conceded then we have no reasonable argument to exclude any man who says they feel like a woman today from any female spaces.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 07/12/2018 16:32

Allbout Are you claiming to be moknicker or to have quoted some transhate?

If the latter I haven't seen it, I will have a look back!

DonkeyHotei · 07/12/2018 16:33

Completely agree with the Vice article and the opinions it expresses. Also agree with the opinions expressed on here by @MrsPinkCock, @Grumpasaurus, @Auntiepatricia, @JusABetterPlayer, @NerrSnerr, @Bombardier25966, @beachysandy81, @userblablabla, @PengAly, @hibbledibble, @Notumbongounchained, @stayathomer, @icannotremember, @nancydrawn, @Lynne45, @Allaboutmeandyou, @wineandnoodles, @Bruegeltheelder, @onefootinthegrave, @whonose88, @dungeondragon15, @thejezebel. Apologies to anyone I missed; equally apologies to anyone whose opinion I have misinterpreted. Also not saying that all these posters necessarily agree with each other completely but just that I broadly agree with what i think each one said. What I do find hearttening is the amount of support for transpeople on this thread (see posters above), as in the past I have been in a minority and shouted down in terms that felt quite abusive.

Thejezebel · 07/12/2018 16:33

Personally I wouldn't feel attracted to a transman. Neither do I feel attracted to women. That I am not attracted to women, doesn't mean I'm homophobic, it's just not my sexual preference.
I feel it must be very difficult for genuine trans people to live anything resembling a normal life.
I get the points you're trying to make, that some men are using the trans movement for very evil reasons.

It's a complicated issue.

Allaboutmeandyou · 07/12/2018 16:33

My Dad is a transvestite and now I know why he spent most of my childhood hiding. Thank you mumsnet for showing me the way.

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 16:34

And do you believe he’s a literal woman all?

Thejezebel · 07/12/2018 16:34

The problem is that you (The Feminist Posters) are using the few examples, to fear all transwomen. That's the crux of the issue.

Thejezebel · 07/12/2018 16:35

Calvinsmam - no he just likes to dress in women's clothing.

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 16:35

What I do find hearttening is the amount of support for transpeople on this thread (see posters above), as in the past I have been in a minority and shouted down in terms that felt quite abusive.

Supporting rapists in women's prisons. Fills the heart with glee does it?

If that is what you are supporting, then you know, it is what you are supporting. Personally I prefer my female prisons to be penis free. They are horrific enough as it is.

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 16:36

The problem is that you (The Feminist Posters) are using the few examples, to fear all transwomen. That's the crux of the issue.

No the crux of the issue is trans ideology not individual trans people.

It’s not about the individual it’s about the ideology.

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 16:36

The problem is that you (The Feminist Posters) are using the few examples, to fear all transwomen. That's the crux of the issue.

Hoes does one tell the difference?

Thejezebel · 07/12/2018 16:36

He's also either a straight man or bisexual or he wouldn't have fathered a child.