To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

Where would most women choose to have a miscarriage? In a single sex or mixed sex public toilet?

Having a GRC does mean that you need to be treat like your new gender identity. So explain to me how making the process simpler and saying all you have to do is fill in a form to get one makes it safer for women?
I'm not arguing in favour of self ID. I don't think any of us are.

People have linked to studies in the past indicating this.

Pretty sure no studies have shown that trans men and men have equivalent patterns of offending.

I'm not arguing in favour of self ID. I don't think any of us are.

So what are you arguing for??

Look, here's an example of fly under the guidelines - Paris Lees a they? No, she's a she.
Why say they? As you'll never accept her as a she?

I'm not flying under the guidelines, I'm adhering to the guidelines. And no amount of you demanding compliance to your version, is going to work.

The reason why it's important to make a distinction, is precisely because you will get male bodied people, who have no concept of what it likes to feel female, representing females.

When women are marching about their biological oppression, and someone who has no concept of what that feels like, and in annoyed by it, tells them to not talk about their biology, women's rights are finished.

Paris Lees does not have a GRC.

Legally and biologically, they are a male and the correct pronoun for males, is he.

I'm not arguing in favour of self ID. I don't think any of us are.

You do realise that if you don’t agree with self id then you’re considered transphobic don’t you?

I'm not arguing in favour of self ID. I don't think any of us are.

Which makes us all transphobic in the eyes of people in the eyes of the Labour Party, the Lib Dems and the Greens and I think the SNP.

Where would most women choose to have a miscarriage? In a single sex or mixed sex public toilet?
Well. For me, it happened in the street, and all that I was concerned about was not upsetting my 4 year old that I had with me and how I could get home. So, unless you are going to insist that all streets are sex segregated it wouldn't have mattered to me.

A man being close by was the very least of my worries and I'd quite like it for you to not appropriate an experience of mine to further your cause.

Look, here's an example of fly under the guidelines - Paris Lees a they? No, she's a she.
Why say they? As you'll never accept her as a she?

What is it exactly that makes Paris Lees a 'she'?

You do realise that if you don’t agree with self id then you’re considered transphobic don’t you?

And I will live with that label under that definition.

Apologies Merrymouse. I misread the thread there.

Pretty sure no studies have shown that trans men and men have equivalent patterns of offending.

I'm pretty sure the Swedish study that is so often cited shows that both transwomen and transmen have male patterns of offending. Transwomen offend more than transmen, but both groups are closer to male patterns than female.

Do you agree with that definition of transphobia wheet?

So it's like Gerald Batten's argument, "It's not Islamophobia because a phobia is an irrational fear and my fear is rational" ?

No.

Not at all like that. Because, once again, males hold structural power over females nearly everywhere and have done for nearly all of recorded history, and this is not true of Muslims and non-Muslims. If your example does not acknowledge this, it is not valid. Can't possibly be.

Unfortunately, although religious prejudice isn't really that comparable to sexism, some of you keep insisting on your increasingly feeble Islam analogies. So let's talk about what would be a more valid comparison wrt Islam, since it seems the issue is going to be forced.

The person making the remarks about Muslims and Islam would have to, rather than living in a society where Muslims don't hold that much structural power and are poorer than average, be in a society where Muslims held structural power and people were treated more poorly because of not being Muslim. So perhaps Iran or Pakistan today, or someone living under the dhimmi laws. And then, their position would be more like that of a woman talking about men.

Those still aren't anywhere near being exact parallels with females identifying male oppression as what it is, but they're better than the one you're attempting.

I can't imagine why you don't just ask for mixed sex spaces and services that you can all share. Turn us into converts instead of demanding we undo all of our risk assessments and socalisation.

Do you agree with that definition of transphobia wheet?

No I don't but if that's what some groups think, so be it.

Self ID will make a mockery of systems here but if it is adopted I shall make a point of using it to my advantage, at every opportunity, just to highlight the absurdity of it.

As I see it, self ID and the treatment of trans men and women aren't the same issue though.

I can be against self ID for reasons that don't include mocking people or casting everyone as a potential criminal.

self ID and the treatment of trans men and women aren't the same issue though.

Eh? What?

Of course it’s the same issue. Its about who is considered to be trans and how they are treat in society because of that.

casting everyone as a potential criminal.

Self id literally allows criminals to use the trans umberalla to shield themselves.

I don’t know how many times we can say this but it’s not about trans people all being criminals it’s about criminals pretending to be trans!!
And as we can’t tell the difference between the two just by looking at them, and because self id gets rid of any tiny bit of safeguarding we have to prevent it, we have no choice but flag it up.

If you don’t think that men are a risk to women why are you against self id?
I’m interest to know which systems you think it makes a mockery of.

Weetabixdo you imagine you are the only person on this thread to miscarry?

I had one at work. A friend, while we were in Spain. Luckily we went to the loos and a little sign language meant the women understood and were able to get her help.

If YOU are happy with unisex spaces then go campaign for them.

Dont campaign for our spaces to be removed then complain we arent being nice.

but if it is adopted I shall make a point of using it to my advantage, at every opportunity, just to highlight the absurdity of it.

And you don’t think that some men will do same?

I think that women are so conditioned into seeing men as a risk, that they don't even realise men are a risk.

So many of the NAMALT brigade will take heed of advice not to get too drunk, not to wear too short a skirt, not to walk down a dark alley alone, not to go home with a random man, not to get a taxi alone. If they have to go somewhere at night, they hold their keys tightly in one hand, mobile phone in the other, and they will have told someone where they are going. They will take for granted that if they go into a female changing room or toilet, everyone in there will be female and therefore a low threat. They will go for a smear and just take it for granted that the person doing it is female or if they aren't there will be a female chaperone there, because that's how we do things isn't it?

They will do all these things whilst at the same time declaring that NAMALT and that feminists are man haters for saying that men as a class as are a risk group.

And on what grounds can those exemptions be made.

Not using the ladies toilet

The point is that the equalities act and the GRA recognise that there is a difference between trans women and women.

As far as I am aware it isn’t illegal for anyone to enter any toilet.

I’ve explained ‘like what’ hundreds Of times.
Like calling all transwoman ‘men with fetishes’, creating threads to criticise transgender rememberance days, creating threads moaning when anyone draws attention to discrimination a transgender person may face, calling transwoman ‘men’, using misused statistics to ‘prove’ trans people are dangerous

Everyone of these points has been separately addressed many pages back. Each item individually addressed. By more than one poster.

Posting the same points again like an automaton is classic derail tactics. Honestly you must think we are so stupid.

Sorry. Bold fail. Again for clarity.

I’ve explained ‘like what’ hundreds Of times. Like calling all transwoman ‘men with fetishes’, creating threads to criticise transgender rememberance days, creating threads moaning when anyone draws attention to discrimination a transgender person may face, calling transwoman ‘men’, using misused statistics to ‘prove’ trans people are dangerous

Everyone of these points has been separately addressed many pages back. Each item individually addressed. By more than one poster.

Posting the same points again like an automaton is classic derail tactics. Honestly you must think we are so stupid.