To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

[Badmoonsarising]

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

I think they're right. Awful attitude from some posters. Goes much beyond arguing a rational point.

Do you think someone can be 'psychologically female' if they were born male, Earlywalker?

if recognising the existence of sex is transphobic

Saying that the only transphobia here is acknowledging sex or not wanting lesbians to suck dick is just getting old now. You’re either to privelidged to see it, your so used to seeing trans people attacked that you don’t even notice it or you’re just plain gaslighting.

Earlywalker it's obvious from your many posts that you just don't understand how lots of women on here feel about their womanhood bring appropriated by men. You don't have to understand, that's your prerogative, but some women are very worried about that appropriation and how it affects us and children.

Well that copy and pasted message is right.

Maybe she shouldn’t have swore (but its a very frustrating subject and women are allowed to get angry too) but I can’t see anything in her statement that is incorrect.

It IS sexist and harmful and rude to say that there is such thing as being ‘psychologically female’ not having a personality pushed on us is what feminism has been fighting for decades.

I don’t know what goes on in someone’s head that isn’t my own. I certainly wouldn’t call them a ‘sexist fuckwit’ if they felt that way though.

In my view transphobia is rife on here. Not always explicit but always there subtly. It's interesting how many people deny that certain things were said and yet the linked thread above is a good example of it.

Many posters claim that they aren't against trans men and women, that they are concerned only for preservation of single sex spaces yet then go on to make derogatory comments about neo vaginas (what business is it of yours? Why does it matter to you what surgery another person has? Lots of plastic surgery that people have for medical reasons aren't as perfect as natural body parts - are these people "less than" in your view also or is your spitefulness reserved only for gender reassignment surgery?) or, as in the linked thread, saying that no trans women "pass" - again, so what? These comments aren't about women's safety. They are just spiteful, judgemental comments.

You say that you are just stating the truth when you point out that people can't change sex so therefore trans women are men - well I'd only be stating the truth if I described physical characteristics, so instead of saying the "lady in the red top" I said "the fat lady there" or "the man with the big nose" rather than " the man in the black jumper" and so on. There is no need to point out certain " truths" at all times. We don't always describe actual truths about parentage when talking about children do we? A mum might talk about her child, she wouldn't always say " my adopted child" or "my child born to a surrogate" yet these are truths.

If your concern is safety why not focus only on safety? Why the need to descend into criticising physical appearance?

twisted I understand perfectly well why self ID is dangerous, I will never understand or accept the transphobia that goes on.
A lot of your posts get deleted on here, the last one I can remember is your refusal to call India willoughby a transwoman and instead ‘a man’. Do you think you contribute to the ‘hotbed of transphobia’ ?

If your concern is safety why not focus only on safety? Why the need to descend into criticising physical appearance?

Because it’s pretty hard to talk about the safety of we don’t acknowledge the fact they are Male.

And the reason we are so concerned about the ‘suck my pickled balls” type transwoman is that they are the ones changing the law, sitting on the Stonewall advisory board, advising girlguides about safeguarding. Jane Fae, Aimee Challoner. Jess Bradley and the like are not people I would want to sit next to on the bus given their respective histories. Yet they are in positions of influence and power. I am not. So yes, I smell a rat.

If this movement was led by, let’s say, Jan Morris I would not have alarm bells going off in my head daily. I wouldn’t agree with their theory of what makes them a woman but I wouldnt be seeing safeguarding red flags at every turn.

The TRAs have done this. They have brought their own movement into disrepute - how could they not? They are a self-appointed bunch of sleezeballs. What other significant lobby group movement has quite so many skeletons in the cupboard?

And I’m bloody proud of British women for spotting it and calling it out. Shocked at how little power we have but still proud.

I refuse to tell lies and I will correctly sex someone. No one will force me to speak bollocks. Lots of my posts haven't been deleted at all, just a few where I have correctly sexed someone because the truth is frowned upon by some.

I don’t know what goes on in someone’s head that isn’t my own. I certainly wouldn’t call them a ‘sexist fuckwit’ if they felt that way though.

The fuckwit bit is rude, but do you think saying that women all share a innate psychological way of feeling and being, that there is a ‘lady brain’ is sexist or not?

The attitude towards her made it so obvious the disregard some posters have for trans people in general

People swear on here all the time. At other people. Are you saying that nobody can now react to sexist fuckwittery but calling people a sexist fuckwit if they are trans - but it is ok for everyone else?

Psychologically female

I've got my new Ada Lovelace hoodie on today. The concepts of 'female psychology' and 'female brains' were rife when she was around & were used to suggest that while she was obviously a maths genius, she should be careful not to do too much in case her pretty little head couldn't cope.

No doubt nowadays Gendered Intelligence or Mermaids would decide her brain was not female & label her trans.

Calvinsmam

There are ways of doing that though.

I don’t know what goes on in someone’s head that isn’t my own. I certainly wouldn’t call them a ‘sexist fuckwit’ if they felt that way though.

But surely you can see the sexism inherent in someone's statement that they 'know' they're a woman because they love shopping for clothes and having their hair and nails done? Because that's what one transwoman said on one of those threads.

I sympathise with people who feel there is something so wrong with their body that they need major surgery and a lifetime of hormones to alleviate their mental anguish, but when they start using stereotypes to justify their decision, that's a different matter.

If your concern is safety why not focus only on safety? Why the need to descend into criticising physical appearance?

You only need to read and research a little in order to see that the TRA viewpoint re vaginas is that the neo vagina is actually superior to an actual one - it doesn't smell like a woman , secrete like a woman , bleed like a woman , birth like a woman , and therefore it is actually a superior little hole that serves no other purpose but to please a man, with none of the above inconveniences. There is an actual attempt to displace and erode what actually makes a woman a woman - and replace it with nothing other than a complete subservience towards the male narrative and preference .
This is why women are disparaging towards a neo vagina . Its concept holds nothing but utter contempt for womankind .

It’s the unwarranted vitriol, if you read the thread you’ll see.

The correct term for a MTF is transwoman, it is not ‘telling lies’ to call them one. It’s deliberate invalidation. They may be biologically Male but it is done with malice. You may be very fat, I will not address you as ‘fat woman’ regularly because I ‘refuse to tell lies’

There are ways of doing that though.

No there isn’t.

The exact reason they hold a threat is their maleness. If they were female we wouldn’t be having this conversation. If we can’t name them as Male then there’s no reason to segregate at all because they are women.

I personally don’t misgender individuals as I hate being rude or offending anyone but if directly asked or if talking about trans women in general I would say they are Male. Because they are.

I refuse to tell lies

And as I gave examples of above, we all tell "lies" everyday, or rather don't make a special effort to speak the biological reality about people.

Do you also refuse to tell "lies" about other physical characteristics? Do you comment on disabilities or body size or acne or body odour? These are all "truths" after all.

You may be very fat, I will not address you as ‘fat woman’ regularly because I ‘refuse to tell lies’

But you being fat has no bearing on me whatsoever. It doesn’t change the definition of me being thin and fat people don’t lose a threat to thin people.

www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(18)32223-2/fulltext?dgcid=raven_jbs_etoc_email
Gender-questioning children deserve better science

This is the Lancet

This article is transphobic according to some.

It’s the unwarranted vitriol, if you read the thread you’ll see.

I was on it.

The OP thought that their worries about their body were real, but when we have worries [we being women] - they are superficial.

Oh FFS, this has been said so many times but I think it's worth saying again:

Women are not wary if transwomen because they are trans, they are wary of transwomen because they are male. And no one has ever been able to give any kind of concrete point at which transwomen come out of the risk category of 'male' and go into the risk category of 'female'.

It's nothing to do with them being trans and everything to do with them being male.

That's why it's not comparable to the way homosexuals or black people are treated. Society accept generally that women are entitled to spaces away from males. We already do this. If you are going to argue that 'transwomen are women' and are therefore entitled to the legally protected spaces that women have, then you are going to have to coherently argue how transwomen are women, which includes a clear definition of 'woman' and 'transwomen'.

I am glad it’s been noted . Time after time I have commented that the language and messaging used is inappropriate

Some of the comments have been vile

And then you get piled on

And so on