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Original poster

To be shocked that Mn has been branded a “hotbed of transphobia”

999 replies

Badmoonsarising · 07/12/2018 14:20

BY Vice msgazine no less!

broadly.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/a3mn9k/mumsnet-uk-mom-forum-terf-transphobia-feminism

OP posts:
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7
Highginx · 07/12/2018 22:00

I think it’s a real testament to the socialisation of women that using a slur to make us feel shame is the TRA method of attack. Could you imagine a movement where people tried that on men?

I’ve become somewhat immune to it now. It’s lost all resonance as an insult.

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 22:00

Yet you are allowing her to speak for you. To present your side of the argument. The side you claim is out for woman, and not transphobic. The side that is not name calling

Posie isn't even on here. We have our own voices. Why are you so obsessed with her?

Hyppolyta · 07/12/2018 22:01

FlowerPot I can imagine its awful, and I have great sympathy. I think the lack of treatment, other than hormones etc, is a disgrace and hope they get the help they need to make them happy.

However, some males suffering is not a reason to remove sex segreation.

That is why were complaining, and accused of being transphobic.

penisbeakers · 07/12/2018 22:02

That's because it is.

Hyppolyta · 07/12/2018 22:12

Penis sorry, what is?

Thisnamechanger · 07/12/2018 22:15

Yeah it is a bit

merrymouse · 07/12/2018 22:16

I’m quite happy to have an open discussion about when and why sex segregation is sometimes necessary and when steps can be taken to remove the need for sex segregation. After all sex segregation has often disadvantaged women.

The thing that concerns me is the campaign to pretend that sex differences don’t exist.

rightreckoner · 07/12/2018 22:19

There is a fascism at the heart of this ideology - see what happens to women who talk about Jonathan Yaniv in Twitter. The attempt to make misgendering and deadnaming a social crime is akin to forced belief. That’s fascism. Posie used an accurate word there.

I don’t agree with everything Posie says but she calls out the bs. If the genuine trans campaigners called out the bs like she does we’d be in a much better place. Because we could focus on genuinely dysphoric people without all the magical thinking and thought control.

For example, Posie highlighted the difficulty she has with trans men who have such significant gender dysphoria they reject their female bodies - but want to become pregnant and give birth. Something is not making sense there. And maybe it’s a severe disassociation with your own body - sounds terrible. But it doesn’t make you a man or a father.

And revulsion at your own body wouldn’t cause anyone to tell me how to talk about mine. So why cervix-havers and menstruators. And chestfeeders?

Because controlling language is about control. Ask any colonised people.

OldCrone · 07/12/2018 22:20

Earlywalker

People continue to see her as some sort of ‘leader’ in a ‘completely non-transphobic’ debate, yet complain when TRA who say equally ridiculous things that are bad for woman, are seen as some sort of ‘voice’ in the trans debate.

So is your point here that Posie is some sort of feminist counterpart to an extreme TRA? In that case we should dismiss Posie as irrelevant as well as the extreme TRAs.

But that's not what you're doing. You're saying that what Posie says is really important and she speaks for all, but the extreme TRAs just speak for themselves, and are irrelevant.

My view is that Posie has opinions, and she's entitled to them (I may or may not agree). The TRAs have opinions, and they're entitled to them (I probably won't agree).

Is that really so hard to understand?

Yidette86 · 07/12/2018 22:21

It's true though...

OldCrone · 07/12/2018 22:22

The thing that concerns me is the campaign to pretend that sex differences don’t exist.

Me too. And what I find absurd is that if sex differences don't exist, what are transwomen transitioning from and to?

Shriek · 07/12/2018 22:23

This is a TAAT.

No,complete ly not surprised in the slightest, you have to look at who is doing the labelling. Anyone who disagrees with men having access to safeguarding is apparently transphobic.

Also,not a CIS woman, also not a TERF

Labels labels labels..no platforming... End of freedom of speech

TheSilentLamb · 07/12/2018 22:24

I have to say it feels like a lot of posters would prefer a world where it was only LGBQQICAPF2K++ . I'm sorry but there's a T between the B and the first Q for a reason. I find some of the phobia abhorrent.

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 22:26

I disagree with Posie about loads of things, in fact I’ve even disagreed with her on here about something and we had a heated discussion.

But I’m not saying that everyone who I disagree with should be silenced.
I actually enjoy talking and discussing with people I disagree with because it helps me hone my point of view.

Posie says loads of great stuff, and loads of stuff I don’t agree with.

It is actually possible to agree with someone about some things and not about other things.

Earlywalker · 07/12/2018 22:27

My point is that you can’t base the whole transgender side of the debate on the views of the vocal and controversial TRA’s. Most transwoman for example don’t want you to suck their lady dick no questions asked. Like most people, if there’s a connection and you want to have sex then great, if not - fine. Yet a few TRAs have said it and you take it as scripture.

You’re happy to tarr a group with this brush based on the vocal opinions.
Yet, when Posie (who is behind the ‘woman’ poster and FPFW if I’m not mistaken) makes controversial comments, I’m sure you would not want people to think that GC people call for mass sterilisation of trans men and base their arguments on this to paint you as bigots and potentially promotors of genicide?

The key issues in this debate has become lost in playground debate imo and there is a lot of plain and simple transphobia and the people who don’t call it out or worse of all - acknowledge it, are as bad as those doing it.

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 07/12/2018 22:28

So if mumsnet is a hotbed of transphobia why are people who think its dreadful that mumsnet is a hotbed of transphobia still on mumsnet

Personally ...I dont think its a hotbed of transphobia, there are transphobic posts on here, and racist, and disablist and sexist and agist, and islamaphobic and homophobic

If I honestly thought the site was a hotbed of any of those i would have to leave

But i think its just a forum, with mean people and nice people and clever people and stupid people

Rufusthebewilderedreindeer · 07/12/2018 22:30

My point is that you can’t base the whole transgender side of the debate on the views of the vocal and controversial TRA’s

And not everyone does that

Pachyderm1 · 07/12/2018 22:31

It’s true though

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 22:34

FPFW if I’m not mistaken

You are mistaken.

You think 'fair play for women' is a bad thing?

Mindgoinground12 · 07/12/2018 22:35

See alot of feminists say that TRA's are bully's and to out spoken ect. but thats not all of them. Just as some TRA's would say some feminists are too out spoken and bullys ect.
It works two ways is all im saying TRA'a want rights for trans people. Feminists want rights for women. The two are conflicting and bound to cause arguments

Calvinsmam · 07/12/2018 22:35

My point is that you can’t base the whole transgender side of the debate on the views of the vocal and controversial TRA’s.

But we’re not.

We’re basing it on the ideology and where that leads.

If we put gender above sex in law then it creates gaps in protections for women.
If in law any male who says they feel like a woman should be treat like a woman then legally women can have penises. Once women can have penises then all legal sex protections for women falls apart. For example how can a woman sue her employer for sex discrimination for passing her up on a promotion because she might get pregnant if men can get pregnant to?

If we concede that a woman is anyone who feels like a woman every legal protection for natal women disappears.

Sex matter.

Do you believe that people who are of the class of human who get pregnant deserve the right to name themselves and hold legal protections and rights just for themselves?

Hyppolyta · 07/12/2018 22:35

Is it me, or is there a huge amount of new posters plopping on this thread?

Id like to know where the transphobia is, because all Ive seen women who dont want to give us sex segregation and wont lie.

Hyppolyta · 07/12/2018 22:35

Is it me, or is there a huge amount of new posters plopping on this thread?

Id like to know where the transphobia is, because all Ive seen women who dont want to give us sex segregation and wont lie.

Purplesocks0032 · 07/12/2018 22:35

It's not a hotbed its a cesspit of Transphobia nothing feminist about that forum.
I have a very dear friend who is a Trans Woman. The comments and posts on the feminist chat would destroy her.
She is the quietest person I have ever known and thoughtful. She spends hours working for charity and the comments on the Feminist page are hurtful to Trans women.
So not a Hotbed a Cesspit.

sackrifice · 07/12/2018 22:37

My point is that you can’t base the whole transgender side of the debate on the views of the vocal and controversial TRA’s.

When the LAW is being changed because of THE SHOUTING TRAs, then of course we are gooing to point this out.

You might well want to give away women's rights, but it is not PHOBIC to point out that these potential new laws put females in danger.

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