Three time flash is not just an accident?

[TheQueef]

Currently discussing with adult DS.

Yesterday I had some day surgery. The only two people in the DS recovery were myself and a man approx 50.
First time I was in bed across and had a full uninterrupted view but we had both had anus and bum surgery so I assumed it was inadvertent.
I got up and dressed so I could sit up and not be in bed opposite.
Two minutes afterwards he wanted up and moving to the arm chairs where I sat.
This is where the three come from.
First he sat with his gown rucked up and knob out. The sister brought a blanket.
Second time leg over the chair arm, balls out (how he was moving his legs after a fissure repair I don't know) Again staff covered him up.
Third time he actually laid it on his leg, like a balding water vole in a satsuma net.

I moved and was discharged.
I was so angry on the was home that DS and me are still butting heads.
He said it must be an accidental flash but IMO it was all deliberate.
Oppressive, sinister and deliberate.

Have I had too much mumsnet or is DS wrong?

I think it's necessary to bear in mind the underfunded, overstretched state of the NHS. Yes, they should be able to do more to protect patients' privacy and dignity (including patients with reduced capacity who are inclined to do things that may distress others) but the fact remains that both those incapable of understanding normal social codes of behaviour and those who are actively interested in distressing others are entitled to necessary medical treatment. It sounds like the staff were doing what they could in the case of the incident OP describes and, as a PP said, OP making a formal complaint is likely to land the overworked nurses in the shit rather than lead to any consequences for the man (who, if he is a practised abuser, will easily be able to claim that he wasn't aware he had his knob out; it would be pretty much impossible to prove otherwise).

I do feel very much for the staff who also have to deal with these incidents on top of their work, probably with much more frequency than in almost any other job, but they too will not get any protection from hospital policy or management if incidents are not flagged up, statistics collected and management made aware of the degree to which it affects both patients and staff.

Juells can you explain your amazement and winking? Not sure what you're getting at.

It's not on. It doesn't matter what the reason is. And yes, it could hurt someone. What if it's a recent rape victim, who is having to sit opposite that? I'd rather be hit in the face than have to deal with something of a sexual nature.

The other issue is that under different circumstances you can simply remove yourself. If you're in hospital recovering from surgery, you can't easily remove yourself. You're not in a position to do so.

I think it's vastly, vastly different to someone screaming or throwing up. For a start, I doubt throwing up could ever have any sinister intent behind it. It wouldn't make someone feel vulnerable or threatened. It's just a completely different thing. I recognise people may react differently due to their history, but that's the point, we don't know. Child sexual abuse is common (sadly) and what if being made to watch things against your will was part of that. I feel being in hospital, feeling possibly vulnerable already, and then being exposed to behaviour like this - while feeling trapped - and then having it dismissed as being the same as being annoyed by someone throwing up trivialises the whole issue and just doesn't recognise how pervasive and unsettling it can be. Women should be able to go into hospital without being exposed to this kind of vile behaviour - most likely it was deliberate - I certainly don't know anyone who would knowingly sit with their private parts exposed to someone and think it was OK. Most people I know would be mortified and try to cover up, just like they wouldn't sit like that in a restaurant. A hospital is no different, only it's worse really, because people are more likely to get away with it, and because the person who witnesses it is more likely to feel unwell, vulnerable and trapped. And that is really, really not fair.

Sounds deliberate unless he was unwell mentally or completely drugged up still

I too am completely shocked at the contents of this thread and how her experience is being dismissed and how she's been basically told she's over-reacting. Comparing it to someone smelling is unreal. By the sounds of it, this guy indecently exposed himself (a criminal offense, I might add) to her multiple times, most likely with some kind of horrible motive behind it. It's intimidating... .. and honestly, for me personally, I would've found it frightening. I may have found it funny years ago, but things change (I'm not going to get into my history but my point is people change, people may have had vile things done to them, they may lose trust in people or feel threatened way more easily). So to have it brushed off as if it's the same as someone smelling or being sick is unreal. This guy sounds vile and OP I'm sorry it happened, and glad that you moved away from it. I'malso glad to hear you contacted them about the incident, because it's very easy to give in to voices telling women to shush and not make a fuss, to be quiet, to put up with things that upset or harm us because it's inconvenient for other people. As long as that status quo is maintained, nothing will change.

What a vile old bastard!

"A penis won't hurt you"
It will if it's used to sexually assault or rape you with. Bog off, Reanimated.

Third time he actually laid it on his leg, like a balding water vole in a satsuma net

I'm not laughing at your predicament. I am laughing so much at this amazing piece of wording!!!

He broke the law, report it to the police. It is not OK under any circumstances.

Poor you, that sounds gross and the last thing you needed after surgery. I am not sure complaining now will unfortunately be of much use and as people are saying, will more likely have consequences for the nurses who were trying to help than preventing him doing it again. I do sympathise though. My elderly neighbour has exposed himself a couple of times to me and my young daughter. I have complained nicely to his landlord but as he is very old, I have just had to try and avoid him as much as I can. It is not a v nice feeling though!

I'd have shouted on the second occasion: 'keep your bloody knob covered before I file a complaint for indecent exposure!'

That's awful. I hate that in hospitals there is this general opinion that it's OK for people's privacy to be invaded on (last year after surgery I was having to close the curtains around me every single bloody time a nurse came in as they insisted on opening them). And it is OK to be flashed at. It's not, this seriously needs to change.

Why are people so passive? It it really bothered you why didn't you challenge him?

Mention the sex offender's register and they'll probably keep their bits covered in your presence from that moment forward

He sounds vile and disgusting. Once is a mistake, twice is a habit. His behaviour suggests he knew exactly what he was doing. On a side note, it is possible to have dementia whilst in your forties or even younger. Again, no reason to justify what the OP had to put up with. Hope you recover quickly from your surgery as well as from the actions of this disgusting man. If male nurses ended up having to attend to him it’s my opinion that he also behaved inappropriately towards the female nurses.

An anecdote well worth reading just for the phrase: "A balding water vole in a satsuma net". Inspired. Whatever happened to: Doctor. "Nurse - the curtains!" At one time they came on wheels. Hard to make a judgement call here. Was the patient recovering from a tranquilising injection?

Definitely deliberate.
To borrow a friend's favourite phrase, "he wants fucking with a wire brush!" worried in case that's considered 'hate speech'

Agree with spudina and reanimated.

When my nan was in both hospital and her last nursing home, she was on strong painkillers and kept trying to take all her clothes off. As much as the staff in the hospital especially tried to stop her, it was constant. When I sat with her one afternoon she was trying to take her gown off every 20 seconds or so. I left and a short while later, her niece and her husband arrived to find her starkers from the waste up. My nan would have been mortified if she had known what she was doing, because she was very prim and proper. Once, the care home found her walking down the corridor completely naked.

You don't know how drugs affect different people, and how they can sometimes make people do things they would never normally do. If someone had reported my nan to the police for flashing it would have been incredibly cruel. And if the nurses looking after had got into trouble for not stopping her - well it wasn't their fault because she didn't have 1 to 1 care - she couldn't be watched every minute.

You poor thing. They tried mixed wards years ago, and it just didn’t work due to dirty creepy male patients assaulting female patients. Honestly this is true. You must report him to the police, not just the hospital. You were in a very vulnerable position and he knew it. He is so obviously a perv and I bet this isn’t the first time he did this. Report it please.

Post op wards are meant to be single sex now

As an HCA I've been flashed at by young & middle aged male patients (elective surgery) who will quite happily sit with their balls or willy hanging out of their boxers.

The thing that annoys me is the lack of respect some men have for me once they know I'm a care assistant- the 'well you've seen it all before' attitude.

For this to happen to an actual patient is even worse, personally I don't agree with mixed bays but in some places like emergency department mixed bays are unavoidable it seems.

If a man has delerium or dementia well that's different but the men I am talking about do not fit that category.
These men are also often I find rude & can be abusive.

I've asked men to cover up but been ignored. But going forward if I actually say 'do you realise you are flashing', to use the actual word for the crime may embarrass them into covering up? Hopefully.

Accidental or deliberate, short of a time machine, what exactly are you looking to happen? The hospital bring him before you and beg your forgiveness? The hospital give you a meaningless apology? A law suit against.......? What exactly would be the outcome you would desire (other than wishing it never happened)?

If it wasn't intentional, then two people have been wronged by the unbelievably stupid idea of a mixed sex ward.

If it was intentional, then OP has been wronged by a man AND the unbelievably stupid idea of a mixed sex ward.

Either way, mixed sex wards are just effing stupid, and if people on here weren't talking about it as if it was normal I might even suspect OP of lying.
(I haven't been in hospital for ages, so no first hand knowledge, but I would have thought it is obvious that people who just went through surgery need privacy?)

I would complain to the hospital about the ward arrangements and to the police if I thought it was deliberate. Grim.