Three time flash is not just an accident?

[TheQueef]

Currently discussing with adult DS.

Yesterday I had some day surgery. The only two people in the DS recovery were myself and a man approx 50.
First time I was in bed across and had a full uninterrupted view but we had both had anus and bum surgery so I assumed it was inadvertent.
I got up and dressed so I could sit up and not be in bed opposite.
Two minutes afterwards he wanted up and moving to the arm chairs where I sat.
This is where the three come from.
First he sat with his gown rucked up and knob out. The sister brought a blanket.
Second time leg over the chair arm, balls out (how he was moving his legs after a fissure repair I don't know) Again staff covered him up.
Third time he actually laid it on his leg, like a balding water vole in a satsuma net.

I moved and was discharged.
I was so angry on the was home that DS and me are still butting heads.
He said it must be an accidental flash but IMO it was all deliberate.
Oppressive, sinister and deliberate.

Have I had too much mumsnet or is DS wrong?

Of course TeaG the hospital sent a how did we do? survey via text I filled that in too.
Will update with their response.

You can't close the curtain nokids as Becca said they need to see you.
I myself had just had surgery but I still asked to be moved, bearing in mind I thought it was possibly an accident NK as I said before I don't think they could have done more the day surgery isn't that big for another ward.

I've always had the curtains closed when I've had day surgery. The nurses come and check every 15 mins.

So speaking up isn't really relevant. Speaking up is always relevant. Either loudly to the person in question or firmly to the staff on the ward. It's not acceptable regardless of the reason.

He could just not have his cock out? Well he could have but he did. The problem is that with the best will in the world, and regardless of whatever laws, rules, regs etc are put in place, some people will always behave appallingly. Once he had behaved appallingly then other people need to deal with it.

That’s disgusting and yes it was deliberate. One of my best friends is a nurse and they would get some real pervs in. They tended to be rather brusque with said patients when they were getting openly excited around the nurses and behaving similarly to this chap. It’s gross and not what you needed after surgery. I’m sorry OP.

Complain. You did not want this and you may save someone else from it as well.

Difficult though it may be, challenging them is the way forward. And to not be intimidated. I don't know how we do that as some people don't feel confident/well/aggressive enough to do it. Laughing at it is also pretty denigrating for men.

But there are certain environments and certain situations where you are going to encounter inappropriate behaviour from other people that those people can't necessarily help. Being in a hospital is one of those environments. It is not possible to protect you from ever encountering anything unpleasant. This man, whether he was a creep or someone not fully responsible for his actions, didn't hurt you - any more than someone screaming, puking or stinking due to their illness would have hurt you. You might find yourself sharing hospital space with someone who constantly prays at the top of their voice, or makes rude personal remarks about you, or engages in some other tiresome behaviour that isn't actually dangerous. It's not just a matter of women being threatened by the Evil Penis everywhere they go, and it's not great to encourage the idea that the mere sight of a limp bit of flesh is going to do you untold harm.

One of the jobs I have involves dealing with complaints/appeals/grievances in the education system, and I have sometimes had to deal with those which involve specialist schools for pupils with severe autism. I remember a head teacher at one such school trying to explain to the token (extremely tiresome) lay person on the panel that you cannot deal with autistic adolescents by just punishing them; you cannot cure their autism, and that any staff member who takes a job in such a school needs to be aware that it is a higher risk environment than a mainstream school.

We don't know, and nor does the OP, whether this man was a person with full capacity/in control of his behaviour or not. She saw his dick. Seeing it didn't kill her. It was just a bit distasteful.

Of course it's deliberate. The delusion of men about their own class and how dangerous and evil they can be is alarming

Oh my fucking god - can we STOP trying to excuse his behaviour with dementia? He's about 50 FFS. Ageism alive and well on here as usual I see. And let's face it, it'd have to be pretty advanced dementia for him to have lost his inhibitions in this way

Just think before you post, some of you.

Sounds like he either couldn't care less who sees his knob or he's just a big old pervert

When someone follows you around and flashes you 3 times, they are making it personal. Stop making excuses for it and stop telling women they are overreacting.
You have no idea where this person will stop.

I was visiting an aged male relative who had physical limitations in an all male bay. Another man in the bay was very disruptive and shouting. The same man suddenly got out of his bed stark naked and walked around the 4 bed room still shouting. I was disgusted and a bit worried about what was coming next with this clearly very uncontrolled man. I was ready to start screaming myself. When I looked at my aged male relative, he was blushing. He was extremely embarrassed that his (not so young) female relative was being subjected to this while visiting him in hospital.
There can be all sorts of excuses put forward for such events but no female be she a patient or visitor should be subjected to this type of conduct. I had enough worries about the elderly relative. I had my own DCs teenagers who also wanted to visit. I did not want them to see this carry on. It is not right

But there are certain environments and certain situations where you are going to encounter inappropriate behaviour from other people that those people can't necessarily help. Being in a hospital is one of those environments.

Well, it is not at all clear that the man in the OP couldn't help his behaviour. In fact everything in my 50 years of being a woman tells me that he was showing his genetalia deliberately.

But that said, if this is true - sometimes in hospital men can't help exposing their genitals to women (why always men exposing? And why always to women I wonder- what could be the answer to that??)- then surely we need to segregate all men from women so that women don't have to put up with being offended. Instead of men being allowed to be offensive and women being told to shut up and put up.

By the way - are there awful stories around about women post surgery flashing their genitals at men?

But there are certain environments and certain situations where you are going to encounter inappropriate behaviour from other people that those people can't necessarily help. Being in a hospital is one of those environments.

Never stops amazing me how society tries to normalise abusive behaviour from men and thinks protecting women is a bit of an unnecessary chore.

I don't think the poster above was trying to normalise behaviour, just explain that such behaviour is not always avoidable. Persons with limited capacity whether male or female do do things such as masturbating in a shop (that was a woman by the way), removing clothing, shouting etc which is not normal behaviour for us, but may be to them, and it isn't directed at women in those cases, they just have limited capacity. By the way, early onset dementia can affect people as young as 30ish. Certainly single gender wards are much preferred but the logistics do not always make this possible. Sadly, many people are in hospital when it is an inappropriate environment for them and other patients, but we do have to accept that the NHS cannot always isolate those people from the rest of us.
I'm sure Op has a fair idea from her experience whether it was deliberate. If so challenging them in a safe environment is helpful in that it is taking charge of a situation designed to intimidate and makes us not victims but taking charge laying out what standards of behaviour are unacceptable.

Well such behaviour (as directed to women) is avoidable if we segregate those who behave like that.

And could we stop making excuses with the dementia (at 30!) and the limited capacity and whether it is deliberate or not (because we all know intent when explained has such a wonderful effect on victims of crime - and exposing yourself is a crime).

Even if the poor sap who exposed himself deliberately three times in a row to the OP was deluded/demented/whatever - why on earth should the OP have to put up with this or see this?

NHS might have its funding issues but surely protecting its users from sexual assualt while they undergo treatment is a priority?

I don't know whether or not this was deliberate but some patients in hospital are very uninhibited and/or not particularly aware of how exposed they are. I see a lot of body parts on display just wandering in and out of patient bays.

Although wards have to be single sex, some specialist areas (e.g. A&E and theatre recovery) are excluded from this general rule.

Sounds like it was completely deliberate. Glad you complained OP, and I'm sorry you had to experience this nasty behaviour. I'm also astonished and appalled by the explainers and excuses on this thread. "It's just a body part", "easily offended", and bizarrely "descend into trans-bashing"!! Even if it was accidental or the man was disinhibited due to meds it was very unpleasant for you and he should have been kept behind curtains once staff noticed.

It sounds deliberate, but does itreally matter? He wanted you to feel violated and affronted and you do. Just ignore it, or make a withering comment about it.

Never stops amazing me how society tries to normalise abusive behaviour from men and thinks protecting women is a bit of an unnecessary chore.

Exactly, pallisers

Speaking up is always relevant

Absolutely. Men who do this sort of stuff need to be called out on it, every single time.

In this case, I think I'd favour the "If you don't cover yourself up, I'm calling the police and reporting you for indecent exposure" approach.

Sorry you had to go through this, OP. I hope you'll let us know what response you get from the Trust.

But it's not just men, and it's not just the sight of a dick that can happen in a hospital and cause annoyance or distress. My mother spent a night in hospital for minor surgery, she was on an all-female ward, and the patient in the next bed had been treated for some sort of bowel disorder, so the poor woman was farting and shitting all night, with attendant smells - and howling her head off as well. Mum didn't like it, but accepted that this is just one of those things that can happen in a hospital.
Also, women with psychological disorders can - and do - physically attack other people. Some people seem to think that their 'safety' (to the extent of never encountering anyone the tiniest bit disagreeable) should be guaranteed everywhere they go, and this is simply not possible.

I understand what ReanimatedSGB is saying, and obviously if you work with or are somewhere you are likely to encounter people with autistic/learning difficulties/dementia then you need to adjust your sensibilities.

But in a hospital environment all patients are vulnerable, and therefore the highest standards of behaviour should be expected and every effort made to enforce them. Makes me think we need Hattie Jacques matron types patrolling the wards standing no nonsense.

I've been in a hospital situation like this, with the person opposite apparently determined to show me their arse and genitals as much as possible.

It was very grim, and the nursing staff did what they could, including a sideways move for me to get me out of direct eyeline. Though of course that meant the person I swapped with had to be head-on to it instead.

Went on for days. Awful, and you can't unseen it or avoid it.

The flashing patient was female. It wasn't deliberate as far as I could tell but there is no way to know for sure. It was certainly relentless. She didn't seem to have any incapacity other than trying to get better from a horrible surgery and struggling with discomfort and pain.

I did ask the nursing staff to do their best to keep her decent, but I didn't complain, report, verbally abuse, laugh at or comment on her in a public way, nor did I report her to 101 as a flasher or wonder where her behaviour would lead next.

Amazing how many posters have been exposed to female flashing

Quite extraordinary.

I'm amazed. Did I say that already?

😉😉😉

I was told the person who assulted me couldn't know what he was doing. But the fact remains he didn't do it to anyone else there and knew how to behave around them, likewise when I've seen him since. He told me he knew "the right things to say" to do whatever he wanted to me.

I knew someone else who behaved like that. He went on to abuse and murder a child and at his court case he tried the same excuses those of us who had been hurt by him had heard before. Didn't work that time.

I'm not saying that's the case here, just explaining.

If the man had dementia or any other reason why he "couldn't help it", the hospital needs to be protecting his dignity and privacy as much as everyone else's. So they certainly need to be made aware.