Assistant Head told class their behavior resulted in supply teacher being fired

[Rockingaround]

Ok - the class had a supply last Wednesday . Whilst there, a few pupils (grade 4) wrecked the craft area ... made slime, cut up ping pong balls, wasted resources and stole craft items.
Today the Assistant Head comes to speak to the class about their behavior. She says how unacceptable their behavior is. How in future if they see any pupils behaving inappropriately they must tell a teacher. A little boy in the class says “but the teacher let us do it”, she replies “yes but he wasn’t a real teacher and he has been fired because of your behavior.
My little girl comes home crying saying what if the teacher has kids, what if he can’t afford to live, it’s just before Christmas etc. she also said “it just as much my fault as I should’ve told another teacher what they were doing”.... so I call the school, speak to the assistant head who talks about how appallling the children have behaved for 5 minuets; when there’s a pause I say “it’s not their behavior I’m concerned with, did you actually say that their actions caused the guy to get fired?” ... “well I told them he wasn’t coming back”. I said “my little girl told me that you said he was fired because of their behavior”. She said “well yes, because children need to understand there’s consequences to their actions”. I said “well that’s just not acceptable, they’re too little to have that responsibility, plus the supply teachers confidentiality - it’s just not fair, I’m coming into school in the morning to speak to the Head”

AM I GOING INSANE!!! Am I being unreasonable, this is not okay right????

That tactic of shared guil-tripping only reaches those with the sensibility to know already that the behaviour was unacceptable. Your daughter is evidently such a child; congratulations. When I was a very little girl, I noticed that my pet cats were missing. My mother told me that they had died because I failed to give them any milk. Imagine. When I was 16 or thereabouts, she let slip in a conversation with a visitor that she’d had said cats put down. I bore the responsibility for those darling creatures’ demise for over a decade and in that moment of her disclosure realised my mother wasn’t quite as lovely as I’d imagined. Two of life’s many lessons, your DD’s experience and mine.

If we take the OP's post at face value, then what sort of impression does it give young children (who at that age are like a sponge, absorbing information), to know that their actions can get a teacher dismissed? What will they be thinking when the next supply teacher walks into the classroom - "is he a real teacher?" The same disruptive children will probably spend the entire lesson saying - "but you're not a real teacher" and then giggle amongst themselves.
Secondly, were there any other teaching assistants present, because it is very rare to have only one teacher in the class nowadays (my wife was a trained, voluntary teaching assistant at a local primary school), and if not, how does anyone expect one person to control a class of children, particularly a supply teacher who would not be aware of the personalities of the children, when I quite often see parents who cannot control a single child.

8 to 9 year olds are not that young. The supply teacher was told not to come back which is equivalent of being fired. The headmaster told them the truth. The kids knew it was a temporary teacher and they should have helped. The headmaster was right.

It's the school's responsibility to help their staff by having a robust punishment system that the supply teacher could refer to. It's not the kids responsibility to behave because senior management can't be bothered with discipline.

It's the entire class's responsibility to help a new teacher. I'm fed up of living in a world where all responsibility is placed on the headmaster. Other children laughing at the disruptive children's behaviour encourages more bad behaviour.

If you have time to waste, talk to the other children's parents instead of wasting the headmaster's time in something they may have said out of frustration. How terrible for the head to now have to waste time on you when your child understands that she could have done something. No wonder, teachers are leaving.

The headteacher is in a highly paid responsible job, the kids aren't. I mean kids should behave and be punished if the don't but it's normal for kids to push boundaries. They need responsible adults to enforce boundaries.

I'd never be a teacher, not because of "feral children" but because of headteachers and senior management that take no responsibility, leave the teachers with no support and blame them if the kids misbehave.

@SnuggyBuggy “It’s not the kids responsibility to behave” ummmm....yes it is!! Stop enabling bratty and disrespectful behaviour. Set some boundaries and expectations for your kids. You will be raising them to be entitled little turds and adult life will hit them hard! Hope your prison visits go well when they’re older.

Oh fuck off. I didn't say that at all. I guess your kids are so good they don't need teachers or supervision. They just learn all they need independently and are never tempted to mess ariund.

Of course students can be tempted to misbehave. But it's their choice whether to behave or not.

It is their responsibility to make good choices. I don't make them behave.

As teachers we have a range of behaviour management strategies, classroom presence, our reputations in school, classroom climate strategies but we don't control students. They choose how to behave.

The students in my classes choose to be polite and work hard. Equally, they choose to work well when I set work for cover staff because if they don't do it properly or they choose to misbehave for another member of staff covering my lesson then I follow it up. They know I don't think it's acceptable to misbehave for cover staff. Do I think my classes are as hardworking on cover as they are in my lessons? No. They get more out of a lesson with a qualified, experienced specialist than someone who may or may not be qualified and may or may not be a subject specialist, but they know what acceptable levels of work and behaviour are.

The most inspirational teacher I ever had in primary school was a supply teacher. She was well qualified, had good subject knowledge and was a breath of fresh air. I had her for a day and she completely changed my attitude to learning.

Maisypops I am glad your pupils are respectful but I am sure knowing you will follow anything up will limit their 'choice if you understand me. Of course it would be very unusual for children to work in the same way as for their usual teacher who has knowledge of the children and the subject. This is not a reflection generally on supply teachers. I don't think children should be choosing to be respectful - I think it should come naturally. Idealistic I know.

Absolutely hubble. I like to think that them having firm and fair boundaries means that what is acceptable is praised and what isn't acceptable is sanctioned.

The way I put it to students (and on here repeatedly when people say teachers have to earn good behaviour and respect ) is that there are 2 types of respect:
Type 1 is basic human respect. It means being polite. It means following basic instructions and expectations for a context. It means that when you are in school you follow the rules and are polite and do your work.
Type 2 is the next layer of respect and that comes with getting to know students and them getting to know you. That's what you earn by being their shoulder to cry on, their safe adult, their advocate when a colleague has been unfair, the person who listens and helps, the person they value as a subject teacher etc.

Any member of staff in a school should be afforded the first type of respect. It's basic and students know how to act. Even if students don't like a teacher or think they're a bit clueless, basic respect means you dont be rude.

Yes MaisyPops you are right.

Senior teachers set the school culture, which seems to be the title page for this ridiculous and self-created incident by the senior staff. Teach respect by modeling respect.

And it’s idiocy to make anyone accountable for that which they cannot be held responsible. As the deputy head has nearly done here. You don’t hold children accountable for adult employment procedure, especially when you leave those children powerless to effect change in that situation. That’s just leaving them with the shitty end of the stick and no way to put that stick down! (Excuse language).

I know the knee jerk response on here is to protect the teacher no matter the situation, but really, a little thought about who’s really accountable here? It’s not a choice between bash the poor underpaid teacher and stfu. There are other ways to still support the teaching profession but recognise a situation has nuances.

:-)

If of course the situation is true, of course, I should have added

WellThisIsShit
I agree.
SLT set school culture. Regardless of the details tbe AHT was wrong to divulge such information to students.
It's possible to hold students accountable for their actions without sharing what was shared.