Assistant Head told class their behavior resulted in supply teacher being fired

[Rockingaround]

Ok - the class had a supply last Wednesday . Whilst there, a few pupils (grade 4) wrecked the craft area ... made slime, cut up ping pong balls, wasted resources and stole craft items.
Today the Assistant Head comes to speak to the class about their behavior. She says how unacceptable their behavior is. How in future if they see any pupils behaving inappropriately they must tell a teacher. A little boy in the class says “but the teacher let us do it”, she replies “yes but he wasn’t a real teacher and he has been fired because of your behavior.
My little girl comes home crying saying what if the teacher has kids, what if he can’t afford to live, it’s just before Christmas etc. she also said “it just as much my fault as I should’ve told another teacher what they were doing”.... so I call the school, speak to the assistant head who talks about how appallling the children have behaved for 5 minuets; when there’s a pause I say “it’s not their behavior I’m concerned with, did you actually say that their actions caused the guy to get fired?” ... “well I told them he wasn’t coming back”. I said “my little girl told me that you said he was fired because of their behavior”. She said “well yes, because children need to understand there’s consequences to their actions”. I said “well that’s just not acceptable, they’re too little to have that responsibility, plus the supply teachers confidentiality - it’s just not fair, I’m coming into school in the morning to speak to the Head”

AM I GOING INSANE!!! Am I being unreasonable, this is not okay right????

I'm a TA. In the past I have covered teachers for a whole day. I have used the teacher's planning so it is the delivery of the lesson only.What would make me laugh is that I wouldn't get a TA to help but a qualified teacher would. How can that be right? Luckily it doesn't happen at my current school. I only cover for 30 mins if necessary which is rare.

So now we have "Fake Teachers". Those kids behaved appallingly and deserve to experience some consequence. Was the FT warned in any way about the possible mischief? Seems he/she was chucked in at the deep end. In my day, the ring leaders would have been soundly caned and the others sent out to run round the playing field ten times at least. That of course is extreme and thankfully never happens today. Besides, the PF has probably been flogged off. However, the naughty kids should all pay for the damage collectively: the AHT should call the FK teacher back and be apologised to by them.

Maisypops this sounds mad but after many many years of teaching I’ve never heard it put like that. Makes a lot of sense.

With regard to behaviour, it can be very challenging as the support from Heads and parents is not there these days. Heads need to keep pupils because schools are funded per child so they reluctant to really upset a parent.Parents can't accept that their child's behaviour is that bad. Where do you go with discipline?

I don't see anything wrong in proving to naughty children that their behaviour has consequences.

Children are never too young to be taught responsibility for others.
This is a good opportunity for the OP to point this out to her daughter, in a non-punitive way, even though the child herself behaved ok.
Like many others on here I've done time as a supply teacher and have a few lurid stories to tell.
Really it's the present system that's at fault. Ideally each class should have a well established well trained and experienced teacher.
If only.

Kids do love to wind up supply teachers.

I know supply teachers who have a blacklist of schools that they refuse to teach at. Presumably those students are left with cover supervisors, who I believe do not need a teaching qualification, or school experience and are cheaper. They certaintly don't have to be a subject specialist. They just need balls of steel. They are a very variable bunch in my experience.

Most teachers are fed up of pushy middle class parents who e mail in to complain when their child has been found lacking behaviour wise.

Occasionally we get an email back to say the parent is mortified and that they will fully support the teacher's decision.

Sometimes a class punishment makes the offenders so unpopular they toe the line.

I think year 4 is a bit young for this assistant head's comments but I think on year 10/11 reminders of consequences is fine.

In my 15 year long teaching career only once has a child actually thrown a table whilst I was in the room.

It was a primary class whilst I was on supply.

Other horror stories include the class I was told to start the day with handwriting practice with coming in telling me that they were stupid. So stupid they ‘weren’t allowed’ a proper teacher only supply ones. I made them write ‘I am a lovely pupil, who wants to do well at school’. Once I discovered that handwriting practice was usually used to get them to write about how awfully the class had behaved the day before. 😮🙈

Also the class the Ofsted inspector walked into and said to me ‘don’t worry dear, i’m not observing you just trying to do a book scruitiny because the school is in special measures’. First I’d heard of it!

Oh and the one when the office lady came in at the end of the day all flustered and said ‘oh shit, are you still here? Agency staff have usually walked out before lunch’.

I can’t tell you how happy I was to escape back to permenent work..

Easily You're right. Only yesterday, the staff room was delighted that a parent had backed the school and given their child consequences for their poor behaviour.
Such an unusual occurrence these days.

I'm a supply. I have been working in the same school for many years and now have known this particular year group for 4 years. I'm an experienced teacher and sometimes can control classes better then their own class teachers.

Once a week, I teach a class of 20 children ( usual size is 30). That should have made my job easy. But hey boy! What a bunch....
They are all low ability. I guess school puts them in this particular setting to get the best results in maths and English.
The is a core group of 6 children, who simply can't behave, they constantly argue, shout, kick off. They don't care. And there is nothing you can do.
It's hard for the parents to understand sometimes. You judge the story by one sentence, but looking at what they did, being just 9 years old, I can just imagine how terrific the class is. Once in a while, every school gets a class or two like that.

The fact that AHT came and spoke to the class means a lot. In many cases management would turn a blind eye.

Do not be harsh tomorrow. It's difficult to teach in school now days. Kids have a lot of anger and self control issues, much more that even 5 years ago.

I would have asked my daughter to be moved to another class. Good classes even when misbehaving, wouldn't let themselves get that bad.

Children are not responsible for their teachers jobs. I can't believe anyone thinks they are, or thinks it's a good idea to lie to the children and pretend they are.

Either the supply teacher was sacked unfairly for the childrens behaviour (in which case they should be suing the school) or they were sacked for their own choices when confronted with a class of unruly children.

False dilemma Moaning, the supply teacher not having been sacked at all is most likely!

It is precisely because of the kind of attitude displayed by the OP that teachers are leaving the profession in droves. Society has become morally bankrupt, with a significant and growing lack of respect for teachers, the police, nurses, doctors, firefighters and so on.
Supporting schools and teachers, working with them rather than against them, always leads to better outcomes for all parties in the end.
Too much is made of their rights, by parents and their children, and not enough of their responsibilities. For this reason, education in this country is now miles behind the best European and world systems.
Or is that because of crap teachers?
If I made a mess of a test at school, I sorted it out myself; it would never have occurred to me to blame it on my teacher, just as is commonly done these days. Pathetic really.

And for my own kids incidentally I'm one who backs the school up - DD1 was in trouble with a friend of hers recently. Nothing major - just two kids coming up with a stupid idea of something to do. School dealt with it perfectly normally - explained why it was a stupid idea and how they needed to make sure the kids stayed safe, informed us what had gone on... no problem.

Bloody hell the friend's mother! Went up to the Head going off on one about how "that stupid woman" had made her child cry. Meanwhile I'm there telling DD1 that "ok - really dumb idea, have we now learnt it's a really dumb idea and I am perfectly fine with how Miss X has dealt with that"

I totally agree with her actions.

We should teach our children not to be complicit in negative behaviour.

The supply teacher would not have been ‘fired’. Supply teachers do not have contracts of employment and the school will simply have decided not to employ them again. The supply teacher has probably decided not to return to the school anyway. The assistant head was wrong to tell the children the teacher had been fired and that it was their fault. Clearly the school has issues with behaviour and discipline and this would be something to discuss with the headteacher.

I haven't RTFT because I really can't be arsed with 7 pages, but it reminds me of the time I was on a course once and my Year 2s were horrific for the supply (class full of severe behavioural issues that took very specialised handling). The HT told them that they'd been so awful that was why I wasn't in the next day, the second day of my course. They were absolutely devastated and when I came back, the Head told them I'd only returned for their final chance. They never played up for a supply again.

I really don't think in some circumstances you can blame the supply for poor behaviour management. Some classes and children take a while to get to know what works and what doesn't. When you're going into a class blind, it can be very difficult indeed. It doesn't mean you're a terrible teacher.

As I understand it, a supply teacher is just there for a day or a week or two, so technically they are from an agency. Yes, they can be asked not to come back, but chances are, they will go to another school instead. So you could reassure your little girl on that score. I don't think the Head handled it very well though, did he? I do not think children of 8 or 9 'are too little' to understand poor behaviour though.
But really the Head 'fired' said teacher because he could not keep order and had poor class management skills on that occasion.

It may be the teacher ‘fired’ him/herself, and just decided not to go back. Many years ago I was on supply and went to eat my lunch in the staff room. The head asked me to sit in my car to eat my sandwiches as there wasn’t room for the ‘real teachers’. I did the days
I was asked to do, but never accepted any more work there.

Knitted he didn't want you speaking to the regular teaching staff. I wonder why?

My daughter head is worse than that. He told the carcass officer I had communication issues. I'm frightened of my abusive ex so hide in the front reception office when he dropped his new step daughter. He continually ignored court proof that it was my contact day refusing to allow after school club to collect my child so I could work and provide for her. The father is on the dole so can attend to collect the kids.

I don’t agree with the school telling the kids that but I wouldn’t bother going into school about it (I wouldn’t even have phoned). If your child is upset tell her the teacher earns his wages by going round different schools filling in for permanent teachers and that her classes awful behaviour just means he’ll nenef come to her school again. He’ll syill go to other schools —where the kids are nicer—

In my school, if a class had behaved that badly for a supply teacher, the head or assistant head would have given them a lecture on how embarrassed they were that a class in our school could behave like that, and would probably have said something about the teacher never wanting to come back and how that reflected badly on the whole school.

The school should have a clear system for dealing with poor behaviour. There is not usually time for a full brief at the start of the day for a supply teacher and definitely not enough time to read the school policies! The headteacher/a senior teacher should come into the classroom at the start of the day to introduce the children to the supply teacher and tell the children that he/she will be asking the supply teacher for a list of names at lunchtime. He/she will be expecting a list of names of children all showing extremely polite and welcoming behaviour to this important visitor to their school. This would send out a strong message to the children that the head was on their case and had outlined the expectation of good behaviour. You can bet your bottom dollar that any Ofsted visitor would be treated with this kind of respect. Maybe Ofsted inspectors should go in disguised as supply teachers to check on behaviour! A bit like secret shoppers :-)

YANBU. That's a manipulative and guilt trippy thing to say to kids. I find it so bizarre and counterproductive when adults try and make kids 'feel bad' and manipulate emotions instead of just having straightforward boundaries and consequences. Doesn't teach the kids anything except how not to trust adults, and how to manipulate to get a reaction!

Plus the whole 'collective punishment' thing is just lazy - can't believe that still happens.