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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Are colleagues overreacting or what?

340 replies

halfwitpicker · 04/12/2018 19:19

In the staffroom at lunch today. I was stood waiting for the microwave and one of the guys said:

'You have a hole in your dress'
'Oh really? Where?' I said.
'Here' and he touched the skin where the 'hole' was.

Now this dress doesn't really have a hole. It has a zip, then a gap, then a button.

I was like, what? And one of the women in the office said, 'it's supposed to be like that, that's the way the dress is made' .

I had a serious Hmm Wtaf look on my face.

Upshot is I left the lunch room and my (female) colleagues all said that words need to be had with him regarding inappropriate touching.

What's the MN jury on this one? He does have form for being odd, not sure that's relevant.

My reaction was instinct though - I was very much Wtaf are you doing touching my back!

OP posts:
JustMarriedAndLovingIt · 05/12/2018 08:38

Ridiculous

shirleyschmidt · 05/12/2018 08:43

Hisaishi sure but the context was to point something out, after the OP asked where. OP has said upthread she was surprised, but 'not bothered', until 2 random colleagues took it upon themselves to convince her otherwise.

Something being a bit "wtf" doesn't suddenly make it sinister, and I think it's very unfortunate that OP wouldn't give a new colleague the benefit of the doubt, and see for herself what he's like.

Hisaishi · 05/12/2018 08:48

shirley and like I said in a previous post, if it didn't make her feel uncomfortable, then that's fine, no issue.

But basically, going around touching people's necks is not ok. Pointing out or no doesn't really make a difference. He could just have told her verbally.

MrsJonSno · 05/12/2018 08:49

I really cannot see ANY issue with this. You asked him “where?” And he showed you. It was in a place you couldn’t see and therefore he poked it. One poke with one finger. If it had been on your butt or your chest I’m sure he wouldn’t have done that. Poor guy- probably thought he was being helpful!

BruegelTheEIder · 05/12/2018 08:52

Nobody in all their outrage has yet been able to give a reason WHY would a man point out a "hole" that is clearly deliberate and part of the design of the dress???

blueshoes · 05/12/2018 08:53

It is creepy. The neck is a vulnerable part of a person's body. In certain cultures, considered sexual. It is not just touching but poking a finger through a hole, also suggestive. It is doing it in front of witnesses and the thrill of doing it in plain sight.

It could be entirely innocent but if the OP feels creeped out and witnesses say he has form, then I would go with OP's gut feel.

I would just walk past his office and say in a non-confrontational way as a piece of 'friendly' advice to avoid touching a colleague's bare skin through a dress as that could be misinterpreted as a HR issue. However, if he was 'odd' in a socially awkward way, rather than creepy, then I am inclined to let it go but just monitor for further incidents.

AjasLipstick · 05/12/2018 09:02

You asked him “where?” And he showed you. It was in a place you couldn’t see and therefore he poked it. One poke with one finger

Hmm

Really?

He couldn't have said "On the back near your neck"?? He thought it was ok to touch her skin through the hole?

Yeah....nah.

goodnightspaceman · 05/12/2018 09:04

Seriously? OP asked where it was and he pointed it out...

MaisyPops · 05/12/2018 09:05

BruegelTheEIder
I've said I've been shopping and thought items were ripped only to find that it's another bizarre deliberate hole in clothes.
If there's a couple of inches between a zip ending and the fastening at the top thrn prior to realising that it's now fashionable to have a half fitted zip, I'd assume it was ripped.

ainsisoisje · 05/12/2018 09:06

He shouldn’t have touched you, could have pointed it out without touching you but difficult to process that in the moment. I think that’s how a lot of creepy behaviour gets excused.

whatwouldyoubelikeat28 · 05/12/2018 09:14

It is never appropriate for a colleague in a professional environment to touch another colleague.
The PP's who are suggesting he as special needs are quite frankly revolting for insinuating people with ASD go around inappropriately touching people.
This is the kind of thing a creep does to 'get away' with inappropriate behaviour - by making it so borderline the victim minimises to themselves and everyone else.
Those of you mocking the metoo movement ought to be ashamed of yourselves. Sexual assault is never a laughing matter, no matter how innocuous it seems. I'm glad you are comfortable with male colleagues touching you! This kind of thing used to happen to me regularly when I was younger and its sick and makes you feel small and unwelcome, just as it is intended to.

whatwouldyoubelikeat28 · 05/12/2018 09:16

If a male colleague had a hole in any part of their clothing, you would never 'poke' them, you would say, 'John, looks like your shirt has a hole in it on the back, you should get that fixed.'
If this was a woman touching a man the rest of the office would say she was hitting on him or similar!

Livingoncake · 05/12/2018 09:18

In school we teach children that their body is their own and that they don’t have to put up with any touching that makes them uncomfortable.

But presumably, certain PPs think that grown women should just put up with random touching as long as it’s only “one poke” or “on the neck” or whatever.

So does this mean that little girls will be taught in school that they own their bodies, but then told when they grow into women that they are being “hysterical” if they don’t want a male colleague touching them at will?

FFS. By the way, the neck is a pretty intimate area to touch. Think about it. Who touches your neck aside from your partner and kids? (Not including medical professionals).

MaisyPops · 05/12/2018 09:24

I think the thing is that one misjudged action doesn't make someone a perv or a creep. I find it entirely plausible to think there's a hole there. It was misjudged to poke at it but not crime of the century.

If someone did that to me in the workplace I wouldn't be impressed and would probably say something at the time, but I wouldn't be reporting them (and I certainly wouldnt be getting drawn into discussion with other women who've taken it upon themselves to stir about a colleague and report an incident that had nothing to do with them).
If it was done again after I'd said something then I would be having a word with HR.

I find the saying nothing at the time, then talking to office gossips, then office gossips reporting It, now thinking of reporting it when asked to be a really unpleasant culture.

VictoryOrValhalla · 05/12/2018 09:42

Some of the language being used here is quite interestjng. People suggesting his life is being ruined and he is being attacked by OP asking him not to touch her. Reminds me of that “literal violence” bollocks spouted by certain groups.

OP didn’t report it. Her colleagues did. (I happen to think they shouldn’t have, it was up to OP to do that if she wanted) all OP did was confirm when asked that she found it inappropriate. So yes, he should be spoken to, because he touched someone uninvited and they didn’t want him to. So of course he should be spoken to and asked not to do that again. That’s not putting him in jail, stringing him up, ruining his life, branding him a sexual deviant or any of the other melodramatic suggestions on this thread. It’s simply asking someone not to touch people uninvited.

Livingoncake · 05/12/2018 09:43

I agree, Maisypops, the situation should have been handled differently by OP and her colleagues. That said, hopefully all that will happen is he’ll get a clear directive from management that he is not to touch his colleagues, and will stop.

It’s the PPs telling OP she should be ok with being touched that piss me off. No. We do not get to tell other women what their personal boundaries should be. Men have been doing that to us for centuries and it’s only last October that women collectively found the strength to say “fuck that shit.”

CaliHummers · 05/12/2018 10:15

We do not get to tell other women what their personal boundaries should be. Men have been doing that to us for centuries and it’s only last October that women collectively found the strength to say “fuck that shit.”

This. With bells on. No-one gets to tell me that it's fine for a colleague of mine to touch the bare skin on my neck, so long as it's once and just a poke. No-one gets to tell me that this is "normal" and that therefore I should be fine with it. And don't tell me I'll somehow ruin his life if I point out that I don't want to be touched.

I mean why on earth does your wanting to touch trump my wanting not to be touched? I'm not saying don't touch anybody ever. You're free to leave the workplace and strike up as many friendships and relationships as you like that enable you to get your fix of human contact. But a colleague who you hardly know? Really, it's just not that difficult to use words. "There appears to be a hole in the back of your dress, just above the zip? Just thought I'd let you know in case it isn't meant to be there." See. It's not difficult, is it?

PanGalaticGargleBlaster · 05/12/2018 10:19

It is never appropriate for a colleague in a professional environment to touch another colleague.

Well I must work in a very inappropriate professional environment. I get my arms or hands touched by my female colleagues all the time, usually when they are emphasising a point or laughing at some joke. I have had hands placed on my shoulder on occasions when someone is leaning over me looking at something on my screen. I have had a hand on my back as the person holding a door open for me ‘guides’ me through. These people are not close friends, just work acquaintances. I think some people are really trying a bit too hard to find offence here. I don’t think the man in question is going to have ‘his life ruined’ but if this one off action now has him labelled as the ‘office creep’ he is going to find it tough going socially once the office gossips make sure everyone knows he is not to be trusted.

VictoryOrValhalla · 05/12/2018 10:24

I have had a hand on my back as the person holding a door open for me ‘guides’ me through.

Shock are you ok with that?

Hisaishi · 05/12/2018 10:24

pan If you're fine with it, it's fine. But surely you can see that many people aren't and that that doesn't mean they are 'looking for offence'. Why do you get to decide what is appropriate?

Beyond that, you're talking about female colleagues. Like it or not, there is a history of men imposing their physicality on women. This, in turn, means that there is a different interaction at play when a man touches a woman compared to when a woman touches someone.

Roobub · 05/12/2018 10:32

Get a grip! He touched your back with a finger.

StoppinBy · 05/12/2018 10:33

Totally normal for all the workplaces I have ever been in. I have always worked within small businesses where everyone gets along well and someone showing me where a hole is (or they thought it was) by touching the hole would have been a considerate gesture.

I see what people are saying in that potentially he could be a creep but I also see how he could have either been trying to help you out or trying to make a joke.

One incident like this doesn't make him a bad guy though and I am shocked that it would be reported to be honest.

CaliHummers · 05/12/2018 10:36

I have had a hand on my back as the person holding a door open for me ‘guides’ me through.

Why? Is there some reason why, when a door is held open for you, you can't decide on your own whether or not to go through it? Are they really difficult, sneaky doors that are difficult to work out? I mean I'm fine with someone holding a door for me. It's nice and polite and far better than the alternative of having it slam in your face. But I don't see why a fully grown adult needs guiding through it. Christ, I don't even guide my horse through doorways. it's a door, he knows how it works.

VictoryOrValhalla · 05/12/2018 10:37

Get a grip

Yes, of him, by the scruff of the neck. He has no right to object. Just do it the once, it’s fine. People touch each other all the time at work Wink

wijjy · 05/12/2018 11:04

I'd be careful that you are not being manipulated by the office drama llamas to provide some entertainment. If you are new there then there is a chance that he is known to be creepy and that you are targeted by him as you are new. There is also the possibility that he is unpopular for quite another reason (perhaps because he is odd), and that you are being used to get at him.

Some office environments can be completely poisonous. You risk becoming part of the "dripping poison" crowd here.

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