Are colleagues overreacting or what?

[halfwitpicker]

In the staffroom at lunch today. I was stood waiting for the microwave and one of the guys said:

'You have a hole in your dress'
'Oh really? Where?' I said.
'Here' and he touched the skin where the 'hole' was.

Now this dress doesn't really have a hole. It has a zip, then a gap, then a button.

I was like, what? And one of the women in the office said, 'it's supposed to be like that, that's the way the dress is made' .

I had a serious Wtaf look on my face.

Upshot is I left the lunch room and my (female) colleagues all said that words need to be had with him regarding inappropriate touching.

What's the MN jury on this one? He does have form for being odd, not sure that's relevant.

My reaction was instinct though - I was very much Wtaf are you doing touching my back!

Tbh, I think you are a loon. He thought you had a hole in your dress, you asked where and given it was at the back, he touched you so you would know. Can't see any problem with that.
I don't think it's the worst thing in the world that someone touched you.

@fruitbrewhaha

Of course it's inappropriate.

He knew there was no hole. It was a clumsy way to talk to you. And even if there was a hole, he didn't need to touch you. He could have pointed to where it was without touching you.

You wouldn't tell a man he had a hole in his shirt and poke your finger in where it was gaping in between the buttons.

He is a creep. I'd bring it up with him.

I am with this. ^ It was an excuse to touch you. What a fucking creep! He knew damn well it wasn't a bloody hole in your dress. What a sleazebag.

Bet he wouldn't have done it to a man.

I don't think there is much you can do about it now, but next time, poke him in the nose, and say 'touch me again, and I'll have your knackers on a platter you fucking creep!'

Men like this set my teeth on edge. The women on here who think it's OK that he touched her skin in this manner, have clearly never been groped or catcalled or leched at or sexually harassed. Lucky you!

Anyone who thinks he was just being 'friendly..' are very naive. As has been said, he did NOT need to touch her.

@halwitpicker

Don't be polite next time OP, and ignore the posters saying 'total non-issue' and 'can't men do anything now without it being seen as an attack?' and 'I couldn't get worked up over this.' Bully for them! Doesn't mean others should not be pissed off by it. And do bore off with the 'what a hysterical reaction' comments! What a misogynistic piece of shit that is to say! Christ on a bike!

Women don't need to be nice and compliant, and put up with shit that makes them uncomfortable anymore. It's not the fucking dark ages! Ignore the posters telling you YABU and you need to get a grip. They have no right to tell you how to feel.

And as for comparing someone reading over your shoulder, to a man poking his finger through your dress, and touching your skin without your permission. Words seriously fail me !

Some people have very low standards.

winter I don’t think it’s an issue. And I have been previously sexually assaulted where the offender was convicted.

Am I now allowed an Opinion?

As if it needs to be discussed in the same vein as the horrendous stories brought to light by metoo

Some metoo stories start a lot earlier, with an innocent joke,banter, a touch no ill intent.

You seem to be happy to be touched by others, that's fine. I have no issues with it either. But that doesn't mean everyone else has to be ok with it too. No one has an inherent right to touch someone else.

I’m absolutely positive he wouldn’t have done this if the OP had been a man. I wish I were as sure of winning the lottery.

That said, everyone has different boundaries. What makes one person’s skin crawl will be no big deal to another. The safest rule of thumb in the workplace is to just not touch your colleagues if it’s not absolutely necessary.

OP, it’s up to you to decide whether or not this bothers you. If it does, a simple “Please don’t do that” next time he touches you should, hopefully, be all that’s needed.

Well I do not want to live in a world where touching is outlawed. It’s an hysterical reaction

The irony!

@WinterfelWench

Are you being deliberalty silly? Or do you not know the difference between a direct comparison and simply using an unrealted example to illustrate a point? I didn’t compare the two at all.

But you read what you want to read so you can hang, draw and quarter the guy for prodding someone on the back.

If you’re uncomfortable then say so, but sometimes you need to accept that your level of comfort may be at odds with normal (and not harmful) behaviour.

Shoot me now, but I do think that fact the OP is new to the company is relevant.

I’m glad I’m not a man. If some people on here had their way, they’d all be in jail if they breathed on you.

It's really not difficult to keep your hands off your colleagues you know, and attitudes like yours are exactly why a lot of men persist in saying it's a grey area and confusing for them. Just don't touch people at all unless you know they want you to. Easy.

@Rebelwitchface

Some metoo stories start a lot earlier, with an innocent joke,banter, a touch no ill intent.

This exactly. I can't believe some of the comments I am reading on here. Absolutely disgraceful - trying to minimise what happened, by calling the OP, (and the people supporting her,) irrational and hysterical and OTT.

If they are ever abused or harassed, let's hope THEY don't get the same nasty dismissive attitude from people.

@naturalbornwoman

It's really not difficult to keep your hands off your colleagues you know, and attitudes like yours are exactly why a lot of men persist in saying it's a grey area and confusing for them. Just don't touch people at all unless you know they want you to. Easy.

Yeah this too. Well said.

Some bizarre, fucked up posts on this thread. No wonder some women are scared to report abuse and harassment.

There wasn't a hole - it was how the dress was designed. Zip up the back, three inch gap, button at the top of the back of the neck.

And then you go on to say he 'could've pointed instead of touching'.

How, if the zips and 'hole' are at the back?

It makes perfect sense to touch the bit he meant, as you couldn't see it.

Being prodded on the back isn’t abuse or harassment! And it doesn’t need a discussion.

If it happens again, then you maybe say “that’s the second time he’s done that....hmmm” then again “right, that’s a pattern and not a random thing to let’s go tell him to stop and not touch me again”.

Take things as they come in a case by case basis. But to vilify someone for one touch, when you’ve no evidence to suggest it was meant as anything and no pattern of behaviour... it’s not a normal way to react.

One touch in the back in the firm of the prod of an index finger does not assault make. Repeated cases, repeated similar behaviour... then put your foot down. But to attack someone for one action which wasn’t of a sexual or abusive nature?

Saying "I'm not comfortable with that" is not attacking or vilifying someone.

So she has to let him touch her 3 times before she is allowed to ask him not to touch her?

But to attack someone for one action which wasn’t of a sexual or abusive nature?

Asking him not to touch you isn’t attacking him.

winterfell the OP clearly said she wasn't bothered and was only thinking about it because of the fuss her colleagues made ... so posters are not telling her that her feelings are wrong, as her feelings were pretty much MEH in the first place ... but don't let that stop you getting into your stride

I'm really surprised at the number of posters on here who think this is ok . No, it's very clearly inappropriate touch.

Yep, I’m also concerned by the misogynistic replies here. Misogyny from men is bad enough. Misogyny from women is fucking heartbreaking. It’s also extremely self-centred to say “Well, it wouldn’t bother ME, so YOU must be overreacting.”

And the people saying “But you wouldn’t have seen where he was pointing!” - well... is there a reason why he couldn’t have said “It’s on the back of your neck” instead of touching OP?

Some people just want to be obtuse.

You can clearly see the point I’m making. We’re not children who need to scream “no touch, no touch”. We can evaluate an event on its own, and then evaluate it linked with his known and previous behaviour and draw a conclusion about whether or not someone is being a bit pervy.

But you’ve heard one touch on the back and decided he’s a pervert. No.

The women on here who think it's OK that he touched her skin in this manner, have clearly never been groped or catcalled or leched at or sexually harassed. Lucky you!

What bollocks. I think you'd be hard put to find any women who'd never been catcalled or groped etc.
I still don't think this is a big deal. Not unless he is a well known lech.

I don't see why the man would mention it unless as an excuse to touch her, or at best a bad attempt to be funny. The way OP has described it it does not look like an "accidental" hole or damage or anything like that.

You might personally not like it. It doesn’t make him a predator. He prodded her back once. He’s not a problem person. If he repeats the bahviour, if he does other things which help fill in the picture then you go ahead and label him.

the OP clearly said she wasn't bothered and was only thinking about it because of the fuss her colleagues made ... so posters are not telling her that her feelings are wrong, as her feelings were pretty much MEH in the first place ... but don't let that stop you getting into your stride

From the OP “My reaction was instinct though - I was very much Wtaf are you doing touching my back!”

You might personally not like it. It doesn’t make him a predator.

You might personally not mind it. It doesn’t make him not a predator.