To ask why anti-Vacciners would prefer polio over autism

[scoobydoo87]

I'm not here to cause a fight but I'm genuinely interested in why people who are against vaccines use the autism card? Like medically it's proven that it doesn't but even so why would you prefer that your child had an eradicated illness rather than autism?

I thinl.the poster was upset because you daid you would rather a dead child tjan a severly autostic child Buttered, my son is severly autistic he cant speak , he isnt tpilet trained etc he can be incredibly demanding but hes also very loving and he makes. me laugh every day people cant omagine what its like to live with a child woth such disabillities, irs npt something i would choose but i would never have wished not tp have him , .

I don’t think Buttered did say that, they said they would rather take the risk their child get polio then vaccinate IF there was a lik between the 2

I’m afraid I can’t be all happy and smiley about autism even though it seems to be the PC thing. My child having ASD has a terrible impact on all of our lives everyday and if I could tale it away from him I would. He’s a beautiful boy but he finds the world so hard. I wish that he didn’t have to deal with that

Maybe the world needs to accommadate autistic people? We don’t want “awareness” or “cures”. We want acceptance.

Look up Lovaas. Gay conversion therapy and ABA (autism conversion therapy have interlinked histories.

A quote from Lovaas:
“You see, you start pretty much from scratch when you work with an autistic child. You have a person in the physical sense – they have hair, a nose and a mouth – but they are not people in the psychological sense. One way to look at the job of helping autistic kids is to see it as a matter of constructing a person. You have the raw materials, but you have to build the person.”

Absolutely horrible to read this thread as an autistic person. Really crushing. I know that a lot of people choose to believe that there is a fleet of “high functioning” autistic adults who know nothing about what it is like to be a “low functioning” autistic person. No. Many of us were those “low functioning” children. Many of us have experienced significant exclusion and bullying and difficulties. And almost all of us can relate far, far better to “low functioning” autistic children than to non-autistic people.

Imagine if we decided that a straight person should be a spokesperson for the LGBT community because they had a gay cousin? Or that a white person would be an ideal spokesperson on BAME issues because their brother-in-law is black?

Autistic people are always better authorities and advocates on autistic issues than non-autistic family members.

I agree with PPs who have said that it is because they don’t see Polio.

I work with people with Post Polio Syndrome and would never want that for my DCs. I did, at one point begin to question my choice in getting my DCs vaccinated as I have a friend who is very against it and had started to get into my head about but since starting my job, I know I 100% made the right decision.

You might not want a cire Sprussel but your version of autism is vety different from my sons you speak for your self and i will continue to speak for my child who cant speak for himself

Absolutely horrible to read this thread as an autistic person. Really crushing. I know that a lot of people choose to believe that there is a fleet of “high functioning” autistic adults who know nothing about what it is like to be a “low functioning” autistic person. No. Many of us were those “low functioning” children. Many of us have experienced significant exclusion and bullying and difficulties. And almost all of us can relate far, far better to “low functioning” autistic children than to non-autistic people.

Hi-five!

Yup. I normally don't bother with this conversation at all, because some smartarse always riffs on the, "but you can read and type, therefore you're disqualified from having a relevant viewpoint".

Of course in the days when I couldn't write posts like these, I got disqualified from having a viewpoint, too. Funny, eh?

AamdC that’s very contingent on what you assume “my kind of autism” to be. All you know about me is that I can type.

Absolutely advocate for your child - that is the right of all parents. But the views of autistic people on autistic issues should be listened to first and foremost. Non-autistic onlookers might decide that there is a “good autism/bad autism” dichotomy but this is not what we ourselves know to be the case. Many of us have had traumatic “therapies” inflicted upon us and feel we must speak out about the harm caused.

We do actually know that you want the best for your child. We’re just frustrated at the continual pushback from non-autistic parents of autistic children who won’t listen to us because they’re convinced that we have “autism lite”.

And what about my childs views he cant talk so i havr to talk for him i dont profess to know everything about autism but i know a lot more about my child than anyone else

@JamieVardysHavingAParty hey there!

One of my favourite quips on this topic which I’ve seen someone make is “I don’t have mild autism. I have extra spicy autism”

Keep shouting that viewpoint from whatever metaphorical rooftop is feasible for you. Fuck Autism Speaks, fuck lighting it up blue, and fuck puzzle pieces.

AamdC as I said, none of us wants to stop parents of children - autistic or non - from advocating for their child, nor are we doubting that you know them best.

I’m speaking on a more macro scale. Autistic people are the best authorities on the experiences of autistic people, and even if some of us don’t “seem” that autistic to the casual observer, we can deeply relate to autistic people of various “functioning levels”.

@JamieVardysHavingAParty @SprusselBrout high fives to both, another autistic one here.
Dad"s best mate had polio as a kid in the 30s and was lucky to survive. He was very disabled, though.

I'm a bit taken aback that some parents would prefer their kids to be dead or like dad's friend rather than like me and my kids.

Great, I can type on a talk forum, much easier than real life communication where I can go completely non verbal under stress.

@BishopBrennansArse hey there! We’ve “met” before on similar threads (I have namechanged since) but hello!

Do they worry about leprosy or bubonic plague too?

Evening

'I contest that it's autism making autistic people take their own lives, as opposed to the discrimination and intolerance they face from other people.'

From my own experiences of suicidal ideation, and from talking to probably hundreds of other autistic people - this is not the case. At all.

When I feel the urge to die, it is because of the cumulative effect of years of being mocked and excluded by my peers, and traumatic experiences due to misdiagnoses of mental illnesses I didn’t have.

It’s never, ever because some sounds are painful, or because some smells are too strong, or because some textures are too unpleasant, or because I rehearse the inflection of my voice and my mannerisms at home so that I come across how I want to, and am a little more acceptable to people in the outside world. That’s just the way I am, and I’m fine with that.

I’m not fine with the bullying and the trauma.

Wow I didn't expect to come back to the responses on here that I have for a pp who said my thread is offensive I'm sorry you feel that way,as iv explained previously I was just curious as to why some people would prefer one outcome other another in the case of all vaccines not specifically polio vaccine. Although form the research Iv done myself a lot of anti-vaxxers choose to not have ANY vaccines not just the one that was falsely said to cause autism.

Hope you're all having a good evening x

I agree, @SprusselBrout
Getting through the sensory overloads is hell. Of course it is. But it's the attitudes of others that have had me at the point of suicide 3 times in my life (one of those from posters on here and their attitude to me being on disability benefits - that time I actually drove to the top floor of the car park and yet I was still sneered at 'words on a screen")

OP I know you like to think you are aware of the impact of autism because of your sister but believe me until it's your own child you can't possibly "get it" I'm sorry but that's the truth.

My own brother has autism, I grew up with it. I worked with children with autism my whole adult life. I knew autism but I can honestly say when it was own son that was diagnosed that's when I truelly felt autism, truelly lived it. It changes you in a way that just isn't explicable.

I'm not overly fussed about your stance on people who don't vaccinate (both my children are vaccinated) but nothing grinds me more than someone dismissing parents experiences of autism than those who say "oh I understand my sister has it, my cousin has it, I work with children who have it"

@cowfacemonkey no I do get it because I raised my sister almost completely alone for the first 2 years of our life whilst my mother worked. I went to her rygate appointments took the parenting classes and learnt everything I could on the matter I went through the sadness the worry the sleepless nights along with my mother do I do get it but she is an absolute credit to our family and we lover her dearly. Please don't discredit how involved others are when it comes to their autistic family members

@SprusselBout, agreed, except that due to my poor phrasing, I now see it looked like I was arguing the opposite. (Do you think unsuccessful posting means I get to speak for myself as an autistic person? )

I think the biggest knock to my self-esteem and capacity to value myself came with being diagnosed in my late teens, and realising that all the nasty, dehumanising things I'd ever heard about autistic people/people with Aspergers meant... me.

Suddenly, all the bullying I'd ever experienced (and it was vicious at time, no doubt about that) was reframed as a reasonable reaction to me 'breaking social rules'. I did question my right to exist for a while, but that came from outside, not inside. It wasn't an intrinsic thing of being autistic, it was purely a reaction to reading people's claims that my diagnosis meant I shouldn't be entitled to vote and so on.

Because a vaccine is something you 'do' to your child. Illness is something that 'happens'.

If you do something and your child gets ill/damaged, you as the parent are blamed.
If your child gets ill/damaged from an illness, less blame accrues.
So people are generally pre-disposed to be more scared of vaccines. It leans them in that direction especially when there are communities out there pushing vaccines are bad messages.

Which is why good education is critical to ensure 'not vaccinating' is also seen as something you 'do' to your child.

Funny how you don't see these debates on fathers forums tho isn't it. All guilt driven.

Anti vaxxers get such a hard time on here. It’s like everyone just wants a free shot at someone.

I say this as someone who’s accepted a fair few of the vaccinations offered to babies. I know lots of very intelligent people ( many that myself or dh are related to) that have made the conscious choice not to vax and I respect that.

As an autistic person, i can’t respect it. And if i were an immunocompromised person who relied on herd immunity, I’d respect it even less.

If I could CHOOSE I wouldn’t have my daughter be on the spectrum too. Purely because it makes my sons life harder then a neurotypical child.

But yes I think it’s offensive to say you’d rather your child dead then autisic. Not that you wouldn’t choose autism.. because who would? But a dead child over them being autistic? Yes offensive to me.

My sons autistic and he’s the most wonderful child and the happies boy. But he’s young and we don’t know how his struggles will transfer though his life. I’d never choose him to hve these struggles just as you wouldn’t choose a child to be dyslexic, have diabetes or any other condition

I don't respect it either. It's a free country and immunisations aren't compulsory but equally I'm free to deride it as selfish and /or uninformed.