To ask why anti-Vacciners would prefer polio over autism

[scoobydoo87]

I'm not here to cause a fight but I'm genuinely interested in why people who are against vaccines use the autism card? Like medically it's proven that it doesn't but even so why would you prefer that your child had an eradicated illness rather than autism?

For those complaining that there's a thread about this every week well, attempt at goody fuckery or not, I think this a drum that warrants constant banging. It might be tiresome to have to read the same rehashed arguments and counter-arguments but if you don't want to read it then you can scroll on by. To me, if the message that vaccines DON'T cause autism and that childhood diseases CAN cause terrible damage and even death penetrates the often willfully ignorant views of even one anti-vaxxer, I'll take tiresome a million times over.

Goady not goody.

I don’t think it’s particularly helpy calling people stupid. People have concerns over some vaccines. I think this is in part due to a mistrust with the government and scientists. I suspect on a population level if a vaccine potentially saved many many lives and millions of NHS money with only a tiny risk of increasing autistic characteristics in susceptible children then the government and the NHS would still promote vaccination.

When have threads like this EVER changed the mind of an anti vaxxer?

I am older and women who were pregnant used to be scared of getting rubella as they knew the dangers. People no longer do.
But I used to work with teenagers with severe autism, and it is a world away from the impact of autism that a few friends or colleagues say they have. Those with severe autism have a very real disability and many will never live independently, or anything approaching it.

Actually if you believe in the link bw vaccination and autism then it makes perfect sense because, today in the western world, the chances of catching polio are so vanishingly small. Obviously if enough people take this route then polio will resurge, at which point the odds will shift again and people's behaviour likewise.

What I don’t get it parents just believing random stuff that’s posted on Facebook and other websites and not checking the source. Anyone can create a website/leaflet/review of a vaccine and write what they want. Doesn’t mean it’s true. But apparently you can’t trust the NHS and big pharmaceutical companies because they actually want us to become ill after having these vaccines so they can make more money from us! One of my friends actually believes this

But autism can be a terrible disease.

Autism is not a disease. That doesn’t mean it’s not sometimes incredibly hard to live with, but it isn’t a disease.

Because a financially motivated report was fabricated by a doctor and published which claimed that the MMR jab had a link. Even though it has been discredited, findings never matched despite a load of research (by independent bodies also who have no motivation one way or the other), and indisputable evidence that he had patented a single jab in hope of competing with the MMR jab and playing off this fear; the damage has been done. As the vast majority of children did get vaccinated creating a link between everything that somebody does and something of which the ‘cause’ is largely unknown seems like an easy target. There are babies who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons who do have autism, if a manufactured jab is causing it, that would be some coincidence that there are also other factors which also cause it (if that makes sense).

People are entitled to their views, and my cousin is autistic and requires special care, so it’s easy to see why some people don’t want to take what they perceive as a risk. However, with increased movement of people from countries which don’t have access to routine immunisations, these diseases will begin to rise again and spread- as seen in Europe.

Exactly what PP have said, firstly thanks to vaccines they've never seen many of the diseases. At most they'll know one person whose had measles and no one who has died or had serious complications. They don't have a visceral fear of these diseases so it's easy to rationalise that they won't catch them anyway or they wouldn't be so bad.

Autism is not a disease.

Fair enough, well I'll say it can be a terrible condition then, but the point is the same.

Yes, personally I would rather have the disease of measles, than the condition autism. That's me, not everyone would say the same.

The effects of polio are passing out of living memory. The mum of one of my school friends was disabled due to polio as was one of dh's uncles. People in the generation after mine won't see that and so some become complacent or are too stupid to realise that if people stop vaccinating it will come back.

For some reason some people think that it's better to take a risk by not doing something than by doing it because they couldn't"live with themselves" if their (perfectly rational and well advised) action led to an adverse consequence, whereas disease is "natural". Let me put it on record that if my parents tried to explain this logic to me if I had been affected by a preventable illness I'd be beyond angry.

Also - selfishness - polio is very rare BECAUSE other people in the UK vaccinate. Ergo the anti vaxxer doesn't have to take the perceived risk of vaccinating their own child.

I sometimes think anti vaxxer a should be obliged to explain their"logic" in person to people in fear of childhood disease for want of accessible vaccines.

Longestlurker wouldn't you also be beyond angry if your parents had given you autism? (if your condition wasn't severe enough that you were capable of understanding).

Vaccines DO NOT cause autism, but if they did, I don't believe anyone would take the risk, the way things are currently.

@Sockwomble depends on your family and social circle.

I know one adult suffering from the effects of not having the polio vaccine and are aware of a few more. I also know people with ASD who could never have had MMR simply as it didn't exist when they were children.

Then again my family and social circle is very ethnically diverse plus due to the things people do in their spare time I'm more likely to meet people with various illnesses and disabilities.

Except for the large number of people with autism who commit suicide.

A large number of gay and bisexual people commit suicide too.

I contest that it's autism making autistic people take their own lives, as opposed to the discrimination and intolerance they face from other people.

No of course I wouldn't if they had followed medical advice rather than going off on a limb. To me the "logic" that "they couldn't live with themselves if their decision to vaccinate caused harm whereas they could if their failure to vaccinate led to terrible illness is about as logical as not using a seat belt in case your child had some rare allergy to the fabric. "Not being able to live with yourself" is a poor measure of ethical behaviour anyway. What about the child who has to live with the consequences?

I have an almost 16yr old ds who was dx with ASC ( they used condition over disorder thankfully ) when he was 8.
I vaccinated him and did the same for my dd who was born 8 years after him.

Autism is not a death sentence and I've heard some horrible comments over the years from people who believe that vaccines cause autism and think that all autistic people are the same.

It's a vast condition and in my immediate family we have 3 autistic children who couldn't be more different from one another. My ds will lead a normal life ( whatever "normal" is ) and his problems and issues are mild compared to others we know. He is not defined by AS but it's part of him and we embrace life as it is.
My dd has not displayed any signs of AS/ASC but I wouldn't regret the vaccinations if she had.

The only person I know who hasn't vaccinated her dc is my NDN who is a lunatic anyway so when she tried to argue with me over it I told her that we would have to agree to disagree.

When her dc start school she will no doubt be petrified of them contracting certain illnesses but that's the chance she has taken.

Nobody can defintivley say what "causes" autism i am on pleanty of autism groups and this topic comes up time and time again there are those that absolutley beleive vaccines have caused their childs autism. As i said upthread i DO NOT beleive this bur many do

Funniest thing I've ever read is (due to high incidences of autistic people in the scientific world) autism causes vaccines.

A lot of the challenges autistic people face are due to the expectations of the neurotypical world. Having said that if the world was set up for autistics and expectations were geared towards autistic behaviours then neurotypical people would struggle.

And here we are talking about the reality of autism as if it had anything to do with the MMR. Anti-vaxxers will just see the word autism in flashing lights even when it's used in the context of explaing that theirs no link.

Anti vaxxers reminds of religious belief. Not about facts or data, about feelings and beliefs that have no basis in reality but that serve some purpose for the adherent.

(Anyway, my kids with autism are bloody marvellous!)

autism causes vaccines.

Well yes, one of my asd kids is freakishly quick to spot patterns and is looking to pursue some sort of medical research based employment (in about 6 years 😂)

*there's

I do think that if you are to accuse people of being as thick as pig shit that you should be accurate about what it is that they think.

Because as someone said you can’t argue with stupid. My oldest child has autism and yes he is vaccinated. He also stunned from 6 weeks old and had other symptoms of autism although not obvious ones. I just had no idea that these signs were anything but quirks till he was older. My youngest had his vaccinations but over a 6 month period. We discussed it a lot and he gets ill quite easily (has had a lot of hospital trips) so us and the doctor felt it was better to give him his vaccinations over 6 months to not risk overloading his system and making him sick. I still vaccinated him as I do know how hard it can be having an autistic child I also know immense the rewards are and how much he loves his parents as we make him feel safe.