To ask why anti-Vacciners would prefer polio over autism

[scoobydoo87]

I'm not here to cause a fight but I'm genuinely interested in why people who are against vaccines use the autism card? Like medically it's proven that it doesn't but even so why would you prefer that your child had an eradicated illness rather than autism?

Sorry I mean when I say you can’t argue with stupid is in reference to those people who openly blame vaccinations for autism without looking into it. Parents should always educate themselves in any vaccinations before using them on there child in my view but the risks of dying from something like polio is not a risk I would take.

Anti vaxxers reminds of religious belief

This is so rude, how dare you?

Because Polio is rare and most are vaccinated anyway. The chances of their dc catching it is minimal.
There is nothing you can do to avoid autism.

'I contest that it's autism making autistic people take their own lives, as opposed to the discrimination and intolerance they face from other people.'

Partly, without doubt. But when I think about a dear friend of mine with autism who has attempted suicide it seems to have been to do with the struggles he has in relationships even with those who love him, as well as the undoubted bullying and workplace discrimination he has suffered. I think our current world is particularly hostile to autistic people but I also don't believe everything would be easy and lovely if we could only sort out the discrimination.

I don't see how that's particularly rude. Religious faith is supposed to be immune to logical argument

I cannot understand how this forum allows so much bigotry. It is disgusting.

Obedient vaccinator here but I do hate the phrase 'you can't argue with stupid'.

Mind you one prolific MN anti-vaxxers often posts links from sites having glaring logical lapses e.g. the German anti-vaxxer guy has proven in the German Supreme Court that measles doesn't exist (not true), but I think there are people who have legitimate reason to fear vaccine damage.

It must be said, however, that there's room for such people in the pro-vaccination camp as we assume there are people who can't be vaccinated and they fall under the 5% herd immunity exemption.

Blasphemy isn't bigotry.

I agree Countess . There are undoubtably some things society could do to smooth the progress of autistic people through life but the basic components of being a person - living socially, building and maintaining relationships, dealing with people, earning a living - will always be there. And whilst some/many people with autism can manage those things fine, or with support, they can be an endless source of stress and anxiety for others. My friends ds is autistic with PDA and the world is basically too much for him unless he can live with mum and dad and do things his way (ie without leaving the house, having to deal with anyone whose not immediate family). And I wouldnt describe him as happy even then.

Blasphemy isn't bigotry.

I wasn’t passing comment on anyone blaspheming

What bigotry are you referring to? It'll be a sad day when MN start deleting posts that say there is no evidence for God

Both my grandma and my brother in law caught polio so unlike most I have direct experience of this disease.
I've even had antivaxxers tell me polio was all made up anyway....

What bigotry are you referring to? It'll be a sad day when MN start deleting posts that say there is no evidence for God

Comparing people who believe in a god to anti-vaxxers was a completely unnecessary comparison and, in my opinion, bigoted.

It doesn’t come as a surprise that the bigots don’t like being described as bigots though.

We all know autism isn't caused by vaccinations but that doesn't mean they are risk free.
My DD suffered hearing loss after hers (we delayed them as she had some other issues as an infant) and it's never fully returned.

Blasphemy isn't just taking the Lord's Name in Vain, is basically pissing on any religious chips, like drawing an analogy with another closed off belief system.

It’s even worse that you try to justify yourselves. What a shameful way to behave.

And bu contradt Grim i was on a facebook thread last week where people were saying that autism is 100% not a disabillity because all autistic people are very clever and talented (i have no doubt some are but its called a spectrum for a reason) i guess some people have no idea

Well I suppose if "anti vaxxer" is an insult in itself it's an insulting comparison!

I thought the comparison being made was between faith and reason. You can't use logic to argue someone out of a position they have reached through something other than logic. I don't see that as a particularly controversial statement.

Ok the pp went on to say that religion had no basis in reality, but I don't think you can call someone a bigot for not sharing your faith, you presumably just think them wrong.

People on here are discussing how anti-vaxers are ignorant, how they’re stupid and so on and someone perks up with ‘just like religious people!’

So apparently you think it’s ok to call all religious people ignorant and stupid. Apparently that’s not in any way bigoted.

There’s scientific evidence proving that the anti-vax message is false. There’s nothing proving that God isn’t real. Hence the two cannot be compared.

We are sort of going off topic here but I'm afraid "trying to justify yourselves " = freedom of speech. You need to invoke blasphemy to close down this sort of conversation because it doesn't fit any concept of discriminatory speech

I have a (medically accepted) vaccine-damaged child (not MMR).

Guess what?

Amongst the many diagnoses, is severe autism.

Also medically accepted as linked to the vaccine damage.

Debate the relative safety of vaccines all you like, but please do accept and acknowledge that vaccines are not a one size fits all totally safe option, and that collateral damage does occur.

Partly, without doubt. But when I think about a dear friend of mine with autism who has attempted suicide it seems to have been to do with the struggles he has in relationships even with those who love him, as well as the undoubted bullying and workplace discrimination he has suffered. I think our current world is particularly hostile to autistic people but I also don't believe everything would be easy and lovely if we could only sort out the discrimination.

Perhaps it wouldn't be, but in the meantime, I don't think it's possible to overestimate the psychological effects of living a life in the present circumstances, constantly trying to seem normal for fear of social ostracism or physical violence.

*Comparing people who believe in a god to anti-vaxxers was a completely unnecessary comparison and, in my opinion, bigoted.

It doesn’t come as a surprise that the bigots don’t like being described as bigots though.*

I can see a correlation in the evidence threshold between the two positions. That doesn't make me a bigot. I'm tolerant of people holding whatever beliefs they want (and would fight for your right to do so) but that doesn't preclude me from pointing out the flaws in those beliefs.

I used the polio vaccine as an example I'm talking about all vaccines

But your point is wrong. People who don't want to vaccinate their kids against MMR because of the perceived risk of them "catching autism" from the vaccine have their children vaccinated against other illnesses.

Using polio as an example is wrong (in the UK, I am aware that there are issues in some countries where people don't want polio vaccines (though not because of fears of autism) but I suspect the number of children not vaccinated against polio in the UK is vanishingly small).

The PP did not say anything about anyone being ignorant and stupid. Just that neither position was based on logic (and both were wrong). You can disagree with her but I will defend her freedom of speech as there was no evidence of bigotry.