The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

It puts me in mind of the mother in Kim’s convenience who won’t say “no” to her child while he is vandalising the shop.

" He is has done a few mean things under Ethans influence"

no

He has done a few mean things.

You are still blaming Ethan.

Dd was a target of such a pairing. She became unhappy, neither's parent would see an issue and they got told off each time then carried on. Maybe consider the victims. Be firm that this is not acceptable. If he stayed away last year, even though they presumably could play together at breaks, what is different now. Ask their teacher to separate them in class to start with but the behaviour may still occur unless you can change your ds mindset.

I've thanked you for your advice
I've said I will be harsher
I've said I'll work on encouraging DS to take more responsibility
I've said I'll continue to mull over the advice and feedback
I've admitted I need to make changes

... yet still people continue to bash and say things which are really not helping my confidence!

For people who seem so anti-bullying and so perfect, you are not really demonstrating what you preach ...

You shouldn't be encouraging DS to take more responsibility.

You should be telling DS it's all his responsibility and he needs to stop misbehaving and being mean.

Can you not see the difference?

Thanks LIZS, sorry your DD was a target and thanks for the advice

Baby steps innocent! Rome wasn't built in a day!

I've said I'll work on encouraging DS to take more responsibility

You’ll work on it? There’s nothing to “work on” you just do it. You just tell him “this was your own fault, you are to blame for what you did to Jimmy. This is your consequence. You will apologise to Jimmy tomorrow and you will no longer be playing with Ethan because when you are with him you are a naughty boy. I’ll be speaking to your teacher to make sure you aren’t with him.”

Btw when I say “this is your consequence” I mean you actually give him a consequence. I don’t mean the telling off is his consequence!

froggy how would you feel if your son was on the recieving end of bullying?

Right Jonny. You were mean to Charlie today.

I do not accept that behaviour. You are being nasty and mean and that is not allowed. You will not be going swimming or to football this week and if it happens again you won't be going again that week. If it happens a third time, you won't get back to them for a very long time.
You are mean and nasty and I am ashamed of you. Your behaviour is not acceptable.

Get up there and do your homework and as soon as it is done, go to your room.

Everything out of his bedroom bar his comforter, if he has one - no books, no board games, and he gets no tablet or TV time. Every 10/15 minutes back up and give him another redding out until he's sorry.

And I mean a proper redding out. Really angry. Stern voice. Disgraceful. Affronted. Ashamed. Nasty. Bully. Horrible behaviour.

Then he can come down and behave himself. Any sign of messing around or "spirited" behaviour he's straight back up to his room again.

Absolutely no attention. None. If he can't behave, then when he misbehaves he gets sent to his room to sit on his ass and think about why he's there.

That's what I would do. Mine are long past that stage. I had a spirited one and that's what I did. Grip of death on the wrist and out round the corner where no one could see me if I had to deal with it in public. But he knew, by 7, that it was his fault wouldn't wash.

I don't understand why you are being so wet about this. I would actually deliberately keep at it til I broke him and he proper cried - because if you don't sort this now, god help you when he's 15. He would know the sharp side of my tongue. Who's the adult here? At the minute, you're being played by a 7 year old.

You don't get it do you? Your son is being horrible to other kids, that is completely his responsibility. There's no working on him taking more responsibility, it's completely on him to change it. Stop blaming other kids for your own being a bully. No wonder he's doing it with mummy protecting him, he may be good at home but hes not at school, I guarantee if anyone was mean to him you'd be outraged but it's okay when he's doing it because he's a good boy really. Good luck with him in the future.

I think I'd forget the softly approach. If he feels bad - good.

But the thing is he doesn't feel bad enough to stop. And he needs to.

Perhaps work with school on behaviour chart. Sticker for each session (break into 3 parts a day) he distances himself and behaves appropriately. Set a realistic rewards for x number of stickers a day. Can be screen time or something free.

He obviously hasn't yet worked out he'll be happier with good behaviour than bad. So help him learn that.

Bad behaviour gets no sticker and no reward. Doesn't require masses of punishing - but rather natural consequences.

Froggy honestly your posts are frustrating.

I can't quite believe you wrote a post saying I hope you never had to deal with this. You really have nothing to deal with you just have to parent.

Try being the parent of one of the children your child is being mean too. Think how you would feel then?

This is not Ethans fault in any way. It is your child's behaviour and ultimately your responsibility

I cannot believe you continue to play the victim after 9 pages of posts telling you the same thing.

I'm Truly curious. If it were my child being mean to yours, what would you expect from me?

What you have achieved so far: your ds can be kind and generous when he is in the influence of people who encourage him to be kind and generous.

What you need to aim for: your ds is kind and generous when he is not under the influence of people who encourage him to be kind, and may even be encouraging him to be cruel.

All of this only starts to work when he realises that he is wholly responsible for his actions no matter what other people suggest.

This means that he has to develop his own understanding of how to behave, not just do what other people tell him to.

This is your responsibility - you have to be clear in defining what is acceptable and what is not. It has to be clear that these rules are for him, and not for someone else (Ethan) to apply.

Some children do pick up on rules easily just by someone explaining things to them. Others don't. It sounds as if your ds is happy to talk about it but needs much stronger reinforcement to persuade him to put this into action.

It is your job to find out what works best for your ds - it might involve losing certain privileges, missing out on things, rewards, loss of rewards, etc etc

He is very caring too and not a bully. He is has done a few mean things under Ethans influence which I hate. He knows it's not ok or acceptable, and as he is normally so caring and sweet, feels terrible that he did something he wouldn't normally

I expect the parents of his victims consider him to be a bully. I get that it’s hard to hear this about your child, and I do sympathise, but there’s nothing to be gained by minimising his actions and blaming Ethan.

Baby steps innocent! Rome wasn't built in a day!

Why baby steps? Get tough with your child and put proper punishments/consequences in place as soon as this happens again.

I hope you never had to deal with this
We all have things we have to deal with. Parenting is very tough at times, and sometimes you have to be tough on your child even though you find it difficult. But there is nothing I have ever found as heartbreaking as watching my DS sobbing because he’s been bullied. If I thought his bullies parents were going to take ‘baby steps’ to resolve it, I’d be furious. Luckily the parents took it very seriously, and came down on their kids like a ton of bricks.

My goodness, the pile on the op is really something, and some castigating a little 6 year old boy should be ashamed, he is only 6 and is still learning, he is not there yet. Yes he is easily led because op son is 6/7! YOu cannot compare him to your ds, as they are totally different. Op yes you need to teach him to take responsibility, it may take a while, talk to the teacher, ask her to keep them apart as that works. Hopefully in time your ds will be less influenced by 'Ethan'.

No need for the pile on and no need to be mean about a little boy.

The school should be doing more like they did last year, to keep the boys apart, as it worked clearly. The school have to take some responsibility, not placing it all on a 6 year old's shoulder's.

You know Op the vast majority of responses have been reasonable if somewhat more direct than you might have liked. I can understand feeling a bit defensive when so many people are disagreeing with your view on a matter and it's tempting to dismiss what you don't like hearing, especially when it's about your little boy who of course you love.

FWIW I doubt most of us think your child is some kind of monster! However we are mostly parents ourselves, all with our own experiences and really I don't think there's anything in child raising that people on MN won't have come across themselves. AIBU can be harsh but you are getting the benefit of opinions and advice from parents from all walks of life and pretty much everyone is saying the same thing. Use the advice posters have given you.

Bloody parent up and deal with your kids bad behaviour.
It is almost impossible to employ young people that have never been told they are wrong, do you want that for your child?

I'm guessing not many posters have been in a situation where another child has had such a strong influence over their DC then? It's a lonely horrible place to be in. And I feel helpless as I am not in school with them and can't separate them and have to just try and help DS when he's at hope, teach him right from wrong and hope he finds the courage to leave Ethan and not play with him at school. I was asking for advice. I've had some helpful advice. Thanks to those who were genuinely trying to help.

I have tried so many things to help my DS and am exhausted.

And my son is not a bully. He has said a couple of mean things (have you or your DC never done that??) He's 7. He has apologised. He feels bad. We are working on it. He is learning. School think he's a good kid. I think he's a good kid. Sports coaches think he's a good kid. He is a good kid.

School are aware of Ethan. Ethan is a bully. Ethan is known for his behaviour. Ethan has a strong influence on people. School know this. I know this. The kids in the class know this.

I feel sorry for Ethan, but I am saddened at his influence on my DS.

People can be negatively influenced. Hitler (not comparing Ethan to Hitler by the way! Before everyone jumps on me!!) influenced good men to do horrific things. Grown men were influenced. People can and do influence others.

I will try and blame Ethan less in front of DS

That's actually a very good idea. Even the nicest child will make mistakes sometimes, but it's important to get them to own it rather than hand them someone or something else to blame

You've (quite rightly) tried "explaining" and he's learned to use a sad face and pretend regret to avoid things. Hopefully, with your new approach, he'll soon be able to choose someone better for a friend - and he'll have learned a valuable lesson which will stand him in great stead in the future

I think there is no helping you or your poor PFB D's!

OP in your later post you said that you had done a lot of work with your ds on behaviour, on saying no to Ethan etc etc, last time round, and it had worked. I think you simply need to go through it all again, the same way as you did it first time round, over and over until it gets through. IME this is normal. Each time you may think "sorted!" and then a year later it crops up again and you realise that it is back to the drawing board. If it worked last time it will work again, and each time it gets slightly easier and at some point the child takes control (in a good way, is the hope).

I think some posters are not reading all your updates. From what you say you are trying to teach him to take responsibility, and teaching him how to treat people properly, and how not to get led astray, it is just that it takes time, and he is young, and children forget things they have been taught in the past, and you will need to do extra work on this sort of thing as needed, going over all the old ground.

The teachers at our school say a similar thing.

I wouldn't get harsher or pile on punishment at this stage because (I think) teaching him empathy and self control is more effective than confiscating toys most of the time. For a specific unwanted behaviour there may be consequences, naturally, but generally teaching good behaviour and empathy is more effective in the long term than punishment, apparently.

Also, talk to the new teacher about the background and your worries, and see what they say.

And keep an eye on what is going on, get dc to tell you what is being said and done, by Ethan and dc and other kids, at school, encourage you dc to open up about it, about things he has done wrong and also what else is going on, so he feels he could talk about it and so you can keep an eye and take action if things get out of hand.

I am guessing that some of the posters don't have kids.