The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

Thank you mogonfoxlight. I'm going to end my reading of this thread with your post because it is kind and empathic and has given me hope that if I keep persevering DS will eventually get there and manage to stand tall against Ethan and be his own little man, knowing that kindness is the best way and meanness and bad behaviour is to be avoided.

I'm feeling a bit fragile right now as I have pretty low confidence and this thread has basically made me feel like a rubbish parent! I know I should've expected that from AIBU, but I think it's the attacks on my DS, who is my world, that has rocked me a bit and made me feel I'm failing him.

Thanks for your kindness

where another child has had such a strong influence over their DC then? It's a lonely horrible place to be in.

You truly are the victim of the tale, aren’t you OP?

Come on, even you can’t be buying that crap you’re spinning. Grow a spine and take responsibility for your own parenting.

I see that you've changed your views a bit from the thread and that you're feeling attacked, but it still seems like your fundamental view of this situation is wrong and so your reaction to it will continue not to work. In essence you need to stop thinking of your son as a victim of Ethan's influence and realise that the victims are the children your son is being mean to.

The advice you should be looking for is how to stop your son bullying other children, not how to get Ethan away from him. By putting all the blame on Ethan you're ignoring the root problem. If, let's say, you moved your son from the school to get away from Ethan, he is still going to have that tendency to be mean to other children when he feels confident enough to do it. THAT is what you have to tackle.

In essence you need to stop thinking of your son as a victim of Ethan's influence and realise that the victims are the children your son is being mean to.
This.
Until this changes, nothing else will work.
There's no will try to work on him being confident, get a role play to develop saying no etc. Nothing will work whilst the parent fundamentally believes that their child has no agency.

What needs to happen is:
When you and Ethan are together, you make bad choices. I expect you to be polite and kind to others and to get on with your work. I know you can make positive choices so I expect you to make them.
Then when there is an issue:
You chose to... You know my expectation is... I will not tolerate bullying behaviour so you have lost a treat/receive a sanction. When you choose to make positive choices and behave with kindness then we can do more positive things.

There will always be an Ethan. Throughout his school life and beyond there will be Ethan’s for your son to attach himself to. He is drawn to that personality. You can’t excuse his behaviour by blaming it on Ethan, or James or Tom or whatever the next Ethan is called. You have to teach your son that his behaviour is his own. Otherwise you will have a horrible situation on your hands in the next handful of years. Think of your son as a teenager being “easily led” by and Ethan. What might he be led to do?

IstandwithPosie

Are you happy now you and others have me me feeel like shit? Is that what you wanted? Are you happy now I am standing in the kitchen crying at how useless I am?

I have only been bullied once in my life (in a work environment 10 years ago), and was never bullied at school.

However, now I feel like I'm being bullied on a mumsnet thread. For people so anti-bullying, this thread is full of bullies and you have all succeeded in making me feel shit. Well done

Istandwith Posie is completely right. There will always be an Ethan. That's a really powerful and important statement to keep in mind when talking to your son. And while he may feel bad for his actions that should not mean he is without consequence. If he misbehaves he has a consequence at home no matter how bad you think he feels. What sort of punishments have you been giving him?

But op, THE loneliest horrible place is the one where your child is being bullied and the parents of the other child aren't effectively dealing with it.

Massive hugs Froggie, I hate the pile on mentality of Mumsnetters on here, even worse than op 7 year old ds. You will get there, and hopefully with the right input from you and maturity, your ds will learn to stand up to "Ethan" and others like him, it comes in time. But keep persevering, and maybe talk to his teacher about what school are doing to try and help the situation.

The op ds is only 7 and he can learn, please don't write an young child off so young, some of you are quite nasty to a child and that is awful. I was bullied as a child, so I have it from the other end. But I can see it from both sides.

Oh what a surprise, you’re playing the victim. Again. doesn’t wash I’m afraid.

honestly OP if it were child who had another being mean to them, what action would you expect from that child's parent?

you don't seem to want to answer that but it might give the solution you need.

OP I would leave this thread, as it is not going to do you any good. Teach your ds to ignore and stay away from Ethan and others like him, and to forge positive friendships, and to be kind to others. This is quite a useful book www.amazon.co.uk/Join-Play-Learning-Along-Along%C2%AE-ebook/dp/B004NNW26A/ref=pd_sim_351_9?pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_p=1e3b4162-429b-4ea8-80b8-75d978d3d89&_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_wg=Q9Y91&pd_rd_i=B004NNW26A&pd_rd_w=EZej4&tag=mumsnetforum-21&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=66e78d24-f270-11e8-897f-c3e174f56499

Words are not for Hurting book, is good too, from Amazon.

I have known an Ethan - you have to see it in action to believe it. They are a devil on the shoulder.

Perfectly nice kids are suddenly told by Ethan to pinch Rosie or smack Flynn and they do it. Ethan is in the clear because he didn't attack another child but enjoyed watching it.
Ethan winds people up to do his bidding.

Ethan will be highly intelligent and enjoy the power he has over the other children

Ethan will have no friends in year 4 and parents find their kids on the receiving end and he no longer has play dates or parties

Ethan's parents won't know what happened

I'm guessing not many posters have been in a situation where another child has had such a strong influence over their DC then?

My DS was in this position. He thought the boy was his friend and felt sorry for him, wasn’t that good at making friends and he and this kid were sat on the same table so situational friends more than anything.

After 2 weeks in reception DS said “I’m not playing with that boy anymore, he’s not nice.” And he hasn’t. They still sit at the same table.

Keep at it, punish him properly and as an individual - not as the side kick of Ethan. And then after when he’s sorry and has accepted his own responsibility, ask him why he wants to be friends with someone who is mean to him and others? Encourage friendships with other children. Let him know that he can say no.

I agree with a PP that you do model the same behaviour. Get a handle on it now before he’s a teenager because the stakes will be so much higher then, and who will you blame then. When Ethan is gone, there’ll just be another bad influence. You’ve got to get serious on this and not just another confidence workshop/exercises for him, nip it in the bud.

Have any of you never been in the situation.m where another child has such a strong hold over yours?

Yes I have. My ds is autistic. He has t a clue what's socially acceptable and has had periods at that age if copying the worst behaviour in the class as that child got the attention.

I worked on it. I agree Rome wasn't built in a day.

But children have to learn they have no control over others behaviour - but they do have control over their own.

It is heartbreaking. No ones denying that. Any parent who's child has been accused of bullying will agree with you.

But you need to change your mindset.

You need to realise your ds is choosing to copy another child's poor behaviour and choosing to be mean to other kids through doing this.

You said yourself others say he's kind and caring. If he is then he does know what he's saying is wrong and needs to out the effort into self control.

@FroggyLoggy get a grip ! You've asked for advice & got it

I have a spirited child who learned from a young age (from gm) that when he was getting into trouble, he'd cry & she'd cuddle him. I've never entertained it & he still does it.

My child was drawn to a child in nursery & they've been firm friends since no matter what anyone has done to discourage it. Both are as bad as each other & much worse together. Birds of a feather flock together as the saying goes.

I never blame the other child & mine is punished for his actions. Thankfully never bullying another child though !

I'm well aware that my child is lovely when he wants to be but equally is very clever & will say what he thinks I need to hear if it will get him out of trouble. I genuinely can never tell when he's lying. He always tries to push boundaries but I'm on him like a tonne of bricks & the school are well aware & his punishments at home so continue that at school.

You need to parent your child & blame him & no one else for his actions. If there's no consequences, he'll keep doing it & giving you the sob story you believe

Ugh, I've been on MN for over a decade, and this thread has really reminded me that I should stick to feminism and the archers.

OP, it appears I'm not alone in feeling you've had a rather undeserved pasting on here. You probably do need to change your thinking and approach a bit, but don't we all as parents from time to time? I'd suggest that AIBU probably wasn't the best place to post the issue - but to be honest, most of Mumsnet is just one big sanctimonious pile-on these days.

I agree Jean, this is the third thread in the last few days in AIBU that there has been such nastiness from posters, it is very easy to be nasty behind a keyboard with no consequences. One had to be deleted as it got so bad. This is why I would rarely ask for support on Mumsnet, there will be some great advice, but there will be those nasty individuals who just pile on.

OP, you need to sift through the answers. There are a few good tips and sensible replies. You can't treat all answers equally. Just ignore the unhelpful ones and take the good advice. I've had a few threads like this but sometimes even one helpful answer is actually worth the 100 sanctimonious ones.

Thing is, if this doesn't stop, then it'll be your DS that kids avoid and that parents ban from seeing and playing with as no one will really care Ethan is the ringleader, all they'll remember is Froggy's DS is mean and unkind.

And whilst your DS might be lovely at home and at swimming etc, no one at school will see this side of him so you have to make sure this ends and quickly.

I think op has the message now folks!

I was a 'good, kind' child all the time. Apart from when I was friendly with one girl. Under her influence, I'm ashamed to say that we bullied 2 separate girls. I was old enough to know better (7-9 years old). I was moved to a different class, then went to a different secondary school, lost touch with her and went back to being kind, friendly and popular.
So I know it happens OP. I thought this girl was very funny and worldly. I couldn't see the bullying for what it was . I'm not sure my mum disciplined me enough. She probably didn't believe the extent of it, or assumed it was 99% the other girl, but it was 60/40. I deserved to be disciplined.

As a side note, it's quite hard to deal with things you don't witness and you have no chance to witness and don't match up to your experience.

My sister had an 'Ethan' in her class who liked to bully people, one day they (bully and her side kicks) were namecalling, pushing and throwing things at a new girl which resulted in her crying her heart out and never wanting to return to her new school again, the teacher stopped me at the gates to explain what had happened and told me my sister was laughing at the new girl crying when the teachers came to sort it out. I can assure you she was dragged home and shouted at for being a horrible person and was made to write an apology letter, invite the new girl for tea, hand over her iPad and tv from her room and was grounded for the rest of the month. Yes she wasn't directly mean to the new girl but I was absolutely disgusted that she just stood there and watched someone else be picked on and laughed at enough to make them cry. She has never been mean to another person before but we spoke about bullying and has been told in no uncertain terms to stand up for herself if being peer pressured and to stand up for other people if they are being picked on. A child knows when they are being mean and they know when they're being nice. And the should know right from wrong. ethan did not force your child to be horrible to other people, your child made the decision to bully another person.

It is not a teachers responsibility to teach your child how to behave. Your son is horrid and it is YOU who needs to sort that. Tiptoeing around your sons behaviour is not going to help. And if you feel bad right now just imagine how all of the children feel after having to go to school with your son who bullies them. YOUR son who is being horrible and making other children's lives hell.