The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

irvin I totally agree zero tolerance to bullying or violence. Consequences shouldn’t be to make a child feel bad, they should be to change a behaviour. Consequences alone won’t change a behaviour. Consequences tell a child what NOT to do, they don’t teach what the child SHOULD do.

I’m not suggesting consequences shouldn’t be used, they should. But the harshness of the consequence doesn’t have to be severe to be effective, if you also teach the behaviour you want the child to demonstrate.

It’s a bit like telling a child NOT to kick a football around indoors, repeatedly, until you end up punishing. It is probably more effective to say pick the ball up and take into the garden! If that’s makes sense!

Please show your DS some actual punishment for the misery he's inflicting on other children.

He may feel somewhat bad about what he's doing, but obviously not bad enough otherwise it wouldn't keep happening.

You need to make him feel worse because sticker charts and story time are just a joke at this point.

I am not sure, Claw, if the parents cannot give their child the consequence of their child's actions, who can?

My ds was non verbal at the beginning of reception due to some difficulty, even though he had no problem talking at home. He was selective mute. He was violent in a way, he pushed, he shoved other children. If I said it's not his fault, he can't talk, maybe he didn't have such a great life at school.

Am I the only one feeling sorry for Ethan?
Because I suspect if OP's son changes his behaviour, things will probably move on more positively for him and the other children will happily accept him; whereas I suspect Ethan is doomed to be the scapegoat for everything that goes wrong in this class for the entirety of his time at school.
Maybe it would be better if he moved schools. For his own sake.

irvin I didn’t say no consequences, I said the opposite consequences need to be used! My point was punishment alone, won’t teach a new, more appropriate behaviour. You need both, if you want a behaviour to change.

RedSky, there were plenty of people who felt sorry for Ethan.

I bloody hate that OP has stated Ethan has safeguarding concerns with his family. WTAF how are other parents privy to this information. Either playground gossip or a neglectful school 😮

Claw001 - wrt safeguarding.

I could easily point out the children with safeguarding concerns. Not all of them, but some.
Why? Because I have known these families for 7/8/9/ years and we all live in the local area.
One family had kids friends with my kids, went from living with dad to now only being allowed to see dad under supervised contact, and his step daughters removed from home. Both kids showing physical signs of emotional distress (hair pulling for example)
One family, we all know mum is alcoholic, she has good and bad phases, and in the bad phases her dd is in foster care.(and she has been known to turn up in playground drunk)
One family I was warned by one of their neighbours who is also a parent at the school not to let my kids there for a play date, as lots of drugs at the house over the weekend
One family oldest 3 kids removed from home, drug and alcohol issues, both remaining kids have massive problems.

Of course people know!

OP I'm finding it rather bemusing how you are blaming Ethan for everything. Clearly together the two of them encourage one another. I wonder if Ethan's parents say the same about your DS or if you're the only foolish one...

OP doesn’t know Ethan or his family, it was already asked, what Ethan’s parents think about it etc, etc.

Unless you’ve heard it directly from the parents, it’s gossip. Even if parents or their kid has confided in a parent, it shouldn’t be gossiped about in the playground.

As you might have guessed I bloody hate gossipers!

Op you don’t need to encourage your ds to take more responsibility for his actions you need to teach him that he is 100% responsible for deciding what he chooses to do. Blaming Ethan AT ALL for your sons behaviour is not helping him. Ethan is responsible for his own behaviour alone and your son is responsible for his.
Clearly the softly softly approach isn’t working. He may feel some remorse for his actions after the fact but not enough to stop being mean to others. You need to step up and show him that you won’t tolerate him bullying people and put consequences in place that will make him think twice about doing it in future.

JeanMichaelBisquiat - thank you! You get it! :) thank you for your empathic reply

No probs, OP - it's a very tricky situation, and I'm seeing so many threads on here at the moment which are quite black and white in their responses.

That said, I do think your responses to your DS being mean to others do need to be far harsher. If you go ballistic, that will really drive it home and galvanise him to stick to good behaviour. But I think it's perfectly possible for little kids to be in thrall to others, and it's a bit simplistic to just say "teach him that it's his responsibility to behave". Of course that's what you want to teach him, but you also need to teach him to navigate/avoid the difficult dynamic of this friendship. And that takes time, and is immensely frustrating!

To everyone - ok, as I've already said, thank you very much for your input and I really am listening and will be a bit harsher and I am determined to increase the amount I encourage DS to take responsibility. I have been mulling over your feedback and am trying to take on the suggestions.

I posted because I was stuck and wanted help.Now I feel like I have a few things to try, so thanks.

Re safeguarding, I know about this a few ways that are not relevant to share and could be outing. I genuinely feel sorry for Ethan, and as I said before, if I was seeing him in another role (if I was his teacher for example) I'd want to help, but this is not my responsibility right now. What is my responsibility right now is my own son and trying to support him. School are dealing with the safeguarding stuff re: Ethan.

KC225, thanks for your post. I love my son dearly (as everyone has picked up!!) but he is genuinely a nice boy most of the time (and that is not me being blind to his poor behaviour). He worked really really hard on his own behaviour in year 1 and distanced himself from Ethan which was such a relief. He had a lovely year 1 and I was so so proud of him. He's really very loyal and sees the good in everyone. If I speak badly of Ethan (yes I know, I shouldn't, I have got that feedback from everyone and won't again ..) then he will defend his friend. He is loyal. He is very caring too and not a bully. He is has done a few mean things under Ethans influence which I hate. He knows it's not ok or acceptable, and as he is normally so caring and sweet, feels terrible that he did something he wouldn't normally. Yes I have made him apologise and yes he feel and bad. And no, I don't think making him feel worse will help.

I don't know why everyone wants to think my son is a nasty bully. He's not. He's not perfect but he is lovely and kind most of the time. He is a fabulous big brother and a well behaved and loving son. When there is no Ethan, there is no problem. For all of year 1 he distanced himself and Ethan went for other boys who were pulled under his influence.

Thank you to those that get it, for offering your empathy and understanding

Thanks to everyone else for giving me food for thought and I will be mulling over your advice and now have a few things to try. Thanks

Funny how they always “fall in with a bad crowd” but are never themselves the “bad crowd”.

Parent your kid. Stop blaming others.

Froggy My son has been on the recieving end. My son is a lovely boy too. It’s really not nice.

It needs to nipped in the bud. I’m sure you have taken this on board.

You are STILL not taking any responsibility on your son, it is still all because of Ethan. Your son IS being a bully. He IS behaving badly. You need to acknowledge that and stop blaming other people.

WeirdCatLady - I hope you never have to go through this with your dc and if you do, that you get kinder reaponses

I’m actually trying to help you. But fine, you keep your fingers in your ears and keep yelling ‘la la la la la it’s all Ethan’s fault’. I give up.

Most parents experience their children having friends that don't have the same values and have more influence than we would like.

I have certainly found my dc doing things that were quite out of character when together with a particular friend.

At the time, my dc was much older than yours and should have known better. In that case, something came to my attention and I was extremely angry with dc. Dc decided themselves immediately afterwards that the relationship was not healthy.

I think your child may be too young to manage this sort of thing, and might need help. But he mustn't learn to escape punishment by blaming Ethan, as others have pointed out.

Go through what exactly OP?

We have all been through our children behaving badly, I should think.

I think most parents go through it at some point? Not sure why you think your the only one expereancing it, it’s a part of growing up. My dd has some friends that are not so nice, she doesn’t have to chose to follow them, she’s her own person and responsible for her own actions.

and I am determined to increase the amount I encourage DS to take responsibility.

This sounds so vague and wishy washy.

Increase the amount you encourage him? How about you will just place the responsibility firmly on his shoulders. It’s his. He doesn’t need “encouraged” to take it. You tell him it’s his fault and you keep telling him until he is telling you it himself.

When a pairing of 2 children is known to cause problems why the actual fuck would the school sit them together again?

I’m not convinced you are in any way equipped to deal with this effectively OP. You are incredibly reluctant to letting your son have any consequences for his bad behaviour.