The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

mirialis, yes, it's unfortunate, but how does your comment help OP?
She is concerned enough to start a thread, maybe she is still in denial. But trying to make her feel even worse doesn't help with the situation.

I have to agree, and I see that you've taken it on board - you can't do anything about Ethan's behaviour, you can only help your son to build resilience to withstand the pressure, to be his own person, and to make sure that HE knows right from wrong and is able to say "No".

My Ds1 worried me to start with - I noticed it when he was 3 at indoor soccer, in particular - there was another boy who was always the one who would do the wrong thing, not listen, mess around, not wait to do the exercise/activity, but my son was always the next one to follow. He wouldn't ever instigate, but he's always be second in line doing the wrong thing.

So I had a lot of strong chats with him about this - including the fact that frequently it is the second one who gets caught, because the teacher/coach may miss the initial wrongdoing, but by the time they're aware, they'll see the next person doing it!

Anyway, I'm hugely relieved to say that he seems able to stand up for himself, withstand any pressure to follow the "bad boy" lead and is a good student who never causes any problems at school or at home - he's 10 now and seems pretty well set in his character, but he's heading into his teens so who knows what is to come!

The OP is asking how to change this. Berating her isn’t helpful.

I would not allow them to bully anyone

The OP is asking how to change this. Berating her isn’t helpful.

But telling her to punish her own son, not blame others for his behaviour, accept responsibility and think of the other child is!

They are all valid points ....

Ethan is well known to the school and there some safeguardinf concerns potentially with his family. (If I was in a different role, say a teacher or SeN worker, Ethan would probably be one of my favourite kids! I actually like his spark and would enjoy working with him and trying to help him.

I really wish you hadn't said that. In this context it just makes you look as if you want to throw Ethan under the bus to avoid blaming your own child while crying crocodile tears over him.

Right now you are in no position to "help" Ethan and if you have any professional or volunteering role with him then it's time to back away, fast.

Sonandhelp exactly!

Claw001, I totally agree. My ds had so much problem in reception. I know I had to do something. But what made me really listen was the teacher's kind words, that she said she knew I was doing my best and I was a good mum, not accusing me for my fault.

Wow I missed this post

Ethan is well known to the school and there some safeguardinf concerns potentially with his family

How on earth do you know this?

Blimey OP, you have taken a bashing.

I have a lot of sympathy. I have a dc who is either an Ethan or like your ds, I can't really be sure a lot of the time.

The school has been hugely influential. She has ALWAYS had a problem with friendships, at times making very poor choices. In year 3 it was bad, teacher didn't think there was a problem, year 4 was brilliant, very tuned in teacher who really got it, and kept a tight lid on the class and the relationships, put her in a friendship skills group, didn't let her get away with anything, but was supportive of helping her too.
year 5, teacher who had no idea what went on between all these pre-teen girls and let it escalate right under his nose until it exploded, regularly, and then he dealt with it baldy, not recognising when several children where involved, just punishing the one to get caught, which was hopeless.
year 6, (now) amazing teacher who totally gets it. Head also on board after several nasty incidents (dd was involved but not instigator, in one she was verbally attacked by adult)
Finally feel as if we are making progress.

And all the way through, she has been punished/taught/ encouraged to make her own decisions/ given many different ways and skills that she can use to say no. and punished, again and again.

It is really hard, and it is easy to tell OP off, but if I could remove one particular girl from dds class I would, and equally I think her parent would say the same about dd. I know that when dd has been fine for long periods and leaving that girl alone, the other girl has got into trouble with others frequently, and dd really hasn't in the same way. That doesn't mean it is all her fault, it is something in the chemistry of how they interact.

I think it is very hard at 6 to stand up to an Ethan. Even now, age 11, dd only manages it about 80% of the time.
Another incident yesterday, again we talked through how she could have walked away. Lots of talk with her now about how she needs to learn this for future life, that she will meet many Ethans and she has to rise above, be the one with self control etc.

But many adults don't manage that, so it is a lot for a child to do.

irvin the OP has stated she doesn’t have a clue how this change the behaviour. Has started a thread asking how to. She deserves some credit for that. Hopefully she is taking the helpful suggestions on board.

I honestly don't think making him feel worse will help

He’s clearly not feeling bad enough if he carries on with the behaviour. You need to set punishments as well as strategies to avoid repeating the behaviour.

However, I would maybe talk to the teacher about helping your son put strategies in place to remove himself from Ethan.

When my DS was 10, he was bullied by his group of friends. We got the school involved, and they sat all the children down to explain how it was making my son feel. It transpired that there was a ringleader, and the other children joined in with the bullying as they were afraid they’d be bullied if they didn’t. The school put strategies in place sonthe children felt safe to say no to the bully, and the problem was resolved overnight.

However, one thing was very apparent. Not ONE parent blamed the ringleader, they all made their children responsible for their own behaviour and made their child come and apologise to my DS. It worked, and my DS is still good friend with them 8 years later.

It was very telling that the only child who’s parent did not make him come to apologise was the ringleader, and he carried on being a bully, but no longer had any support from friends.

You do your child no favours by excusing his behaviour by blaming another child, but you must make sure he knows how to extract himself from the situation if he chooses to do so.

Same issue here with ds1 in reception. Teacher has said the behavioural influence is definitely from the other boy. Trying desperately every day to make ds1 take responsibility for his own choices in what he does regardless of this other boy. Some days it works some days it doesn’t. Frustrating for you and me op but I do agree with pp about trying to make your son choose the right thing to do.

OP. I hope you are still reading. I was one of the first posters who suggested you build up your son's confidence to say 'No to Ethan's behaviour'

I think it must be pretty draining reading all this and the fact you have posted in a public forum (known for taking no prisoners) means that you are not brushing this under the carpet but you want to resolve this.

What does your son see in Ethan? What is good about being with Ethan? Does your son want to continue sitting next to or being friends with Ethan? When he was separated from Ethan who was he palying with? Is Ethan threatening him? I ask this as I noticed the bit in your update when you had suggested your son teach Ethan to be nice and he replied 'its impossible'. What happens when your son plays with his friends in the other class?

The fact that your son feels empathy and feels bad about his behaviour is a good sign. Hopefully, more consequences will have an effect. I would mention it to the new teacher though.

Claw001, that's why I always felt sympathetic towards OP. It's a difficult situation. I really wish she reads all the comment and think about it, instead of thinking it's an attack. It's not. We all love our children, but when there are victims in the situation, it's not that simple.

I would add that I have nothing against this other boy except that he seems to encourage my son to do disruptive things. I am more frustrated at my son who seems to want to do them rather than using the ample set of brains he has and walking away. He tells me he doesn’t want to do things all the time - very politely I might add “no thanks mummy” agh!

You sound very much like family member of mine who I've had to stop speaking to because of her ds.
Her key words to describe him are, sprited and free, but what she fails to see is her ds is violent & rude, who constantly distracts the whole of his class because he will not sit down and listen, he "play fights" with other children harming them and will not stop when he's told that he's hurting them.
However it's never his fault , always theirs as "they were playing with him and he gets very excited"

As I said I stopped speaking to her as she accused my ds of being a bully, after he pushed her ds away from him because he had punched my ds twice in the mouth her excuse he's still little and misunderstood, he's 6 my ds is 7.
I just hope he grows out of it or she does some real parenting before he reaches secondary age.

I don’t agree disciplining any child should be about making them feel bad! It should be about boundaries and teaching alternative behaviours.

When your speaking with him about it op, please try and consider that he may feel bad, not about his behaviour at school, but that you've found out and he doesn't want to disappoint you. It's quite common for people of all ages to feel more upset and embarrassed about being caught and challenged than the act they've been pulled up about which they can justify to themselves and its that that needs work on, that's why its hard to deal with.
It's easy to say sorry to mum and tell her what she wants to here, my son used to do it, it took ages before he started to take responsibility for he actions and to just not get involved.

Way too much focus on Ethan here, focus should be on your son and what he's done. You are blaming Ethan for everything and absolving your son of responsibility. That's not going to end well in the future if you continue down this path.

Next time he's in trouble at school, don't even mention Ethan just focus on what he's done and why it's wrong.

I think you have to make it clear to your son that this is not being mean it is bullying.
Children understand what this is as it's taught all the timeAt one time my dd was being bullied by some bits in her class We told the teacher who reassured her that telling him was the right thing to do.
Dd said that that week he did a lesson on bullying,no names just what it was and for them to write down how it would make them feel.The bullying stopped
In her year 5 in primary I found a note from a friend in her book bag that suggested that a group of girls,including dd,were isolating another girl.I spoke to dd,explained that it was bullying.I don't know how the girls turned it around but the isolated girl was included in their group from then on.
Some be clear,your son is bullying.

Claw001, what do you mean? I certainly made my ds felt bad if he has done something wrong. I made him apologised to the child, taken off things, grounded him, I am sure it made him feel bad, but so what? Some things need to be stopped. It really doesn't matter how you set boundaries at home. Teasing/bullying/physical violence need to be stopped, no matter how much it affect individual child.

don't even mention Ethan
no, I disagree. Do mention Ethan, say that ds KNOWS that when he and Ethan are together, ds makes bad choices.
Talk in terms of choices, and with each situation, go back and talk about the choices he COULD have made.
Acknowledge that this behaviour happens when around Ethan, but Ethan isn't making him do it, he is choosing to do it.

He does need skills. He needs to know how to say no, and what he can do instead. He needs phrases that he can say, and to practice walking away. And he needs clear consequences to his actions.

Jesus christ, no wonder your kids being horrible. No consequences and you blame Ethan in front of him, your son is being a bully for fucks sake take some responsibility, make your child take responsibility and actually punish him. 'I'll try to be harsher' wow.

*You are actually modelling the exact same behaviour you want him to stop with Ethan

I can't do anything. It's not my fault. I can't change this. Oh woe is me I feel terrible but what can I do*

This. Exactly this. Learn to accept responsibility for your parenting and for the actions of your child and perhaps he will learn to take responsibility for his actions.