The boy that influences the other kid to be naughty and mean :(

[FroggyLoggy]

More a WWYD ... please help :)

So, in reception, DS1 was under the influence of a boy, let's call him Ethan. Ethan and DS1 were constantly in trouble together and DS1 was acting way out of character, being mean to other kids, aggressive etc... (he was never ever like this at nursery and is a lovely lovely boy at home). We knew it was the influence of Ethan, but couldn't keep DS1 away from him. Countless emails and conversations with school, copious amounts of worry, and we came extremely close to removing DS1 from the school simply to get him away from Ethan.

Year 1, fantastic teacher separated them at start of year and DS1 made a HUGE effort to stay away from 'Ethan'. For basically all of year 1, DS1 was his old self again, stayed away from Ethan (who found other boys to influence and get in trouble with) and he had a great, happy, well behaved year 1.

Now year 2, message wasn't relayed to class teacher about the history between DS1 and Ethan, and we just found out DS1 had been placed next to Ethan in most lessons. Friendship has re-kindled and now DS1 is back to being under his influence and already he's started being mean to another kid (which he would NEVER ever think to do if Ethan want there). School have now separated them during classes at my request, but I fear it's too late as they r now friends again.

Please help me! How can I encourage DS1 to stop playing with Ethan. I've tried everything. I fear it will be like the nightmare reception year all over again :( Poor Ethan is only 6, but I really can't stand him and wish he'd moe away/leave the school. I know it's not his fault, it's his home life, but his influence on DS1 is destroying me. I want my old DS1 back again

My son is not horrid and he is not a bully

You might find the parents of child he is mean too disagree OP.

I'm Truly sorry that's not what You want to hear and I don't believe your son is horrid but his behaviour is

In fact, the more I read this thread, the more I realise that actually, I'm not such a bad parent. I have 2 wonderful boys who I am fairly sure will turn into pretty decent young men as they get older. They have a mum and dad that love and care for them, that want to parent well, that do their best and that actually have done a pretty good job so far.

I will take some bits from what people have said, but actually, we'll be ok thanks. My DS is not what you think and I am proud of who he is. I am proud of how hard he tried with his behaviour last year and I believe in him and believe he can do that again. I will step up and work hard to get him back on track because I love him and I know he can do it. He will be ok.

You don't need to take all these posts as an attack on your son. Just think of what you can do as his mother to help him in the best way possible. And from all my experience (youngest now 18, living in a world full of temptations), that is going to be telling your son very firmly: I don't care what Ethan said. I don't care what Ethan did. I care what YOU DO and if you misbehave I will get cross WITH YOU.

Getting this idea established now, that this is what my mum's like, when he is still young, will save an awful lot of hassle in 10 years time when you want to explain to him that "I don't care what your friends do or don't do- unless they pinned you to the ground and poured that vodka down your throat with a funnel YOU are the person I hold responsible".

It's not about increasing the amount you hold him responsible: it's about making it clear that you will always hold him responsible for anything he does, and as you are not Ethan's mum you are not really interested in what Ethan does anyway.

This is actually a way you can avoid upsetting him by criticising Ethan too: once you have established that your ds is 100% responsible for his actions, there is no need to bring Ethan into the discussion. Nicer for both of you.

he is not a bully
If he is bullying other children and being unkind to them then he is.

As it stands I can see where this will go unless you acknowledge he is responsible for his actions.

This is what we get in secondary:
Hi it's Timmy's mum. Yes. Other children are excluding my child because they don't want to work with him in group work and sigh when the teacher puts Timmy in their group - reality: Timmy is unpleasant to other children and so unsurprisingly they don't really feel enthused working with him

Hi it's Timmy's mum. Mrs Blogs has put Timmy in detention for not completing his work, but that's not really a fair sanction as he has assured me that nobody else in the class completed the work and Adam only got to question 5. How can you justify targeting my child? Reality: It was tinmy and friends messing around and noy working. Everyone else was great. Adam had an ECHP and getting to question 5 was a massive achievement for him.

Hi It's Timmy's mum. I want a meeting with the head because the head of year has interviewed Timmy for bullying. Let me tell you Timmy is not a bully. At all. Ever. He is the kindest person you will ever meet. You should be looking at George. George has such a sway over the other children. It is wrong for you to suggest Timmy has been a bully reality: Timmy likes to dish it out when he is with George and the pair of them feed off each other. Both children have been bullying.

Hi it's Timmy's Mum. I dont see why Timmy is on maths report. The teacher claimed it was for poor attitude and class work but Timmy works exceptionally hard. He just struggles sometimes. And his class work is always done except when Daniel is within eyeline. Daniel always distracts Timmy and had done since year 3. Every year we told the primary teachers that Timmy should be sat away from Daniel and so that Daniel can't turn around and put him off his work. We have reminded Timmy that just because Daniel doesn't work, doesn't mean he needs to be led astray there. Timmy knows how we feel about Daniel. Could you make sure all 15 teachers at secondary school change their seating plans? reality: Timmy is nowhere near Daniel. Daniel can be a bit off task but actually 70% of the time Timmy is distracting other students first.

Year 11 - Timmy is underperforming and Mum comes in for a meeting and says "we are just so shocked it's come to this. He's been brilliant all the way through school. We've no idea what's got into him this year. We've even told him he needs to look at who he is hanging around with"

FroggyLoggy whilst it's crap right now, this doesn't mean that you're son is some sort of deviant and will end up in prison. And even if you've somewhat dropped the ball in this instance, it doesn't make you a bad parent, just means you're human. It matters how you'll handle it from now on.

He's a kid doing something stupid and unkind and you need to help him stop for everyone's sake.

Maybe talk to the teacher as they 100% had to deal with this before and it might give you a good starting point.

I also agree to teach him to behave kindly

Lay it on very thick that he makes his own choices . Good luck 😉

This thread is mn at its worst

people, you are BULLYING the OP. You who are all so insistent that her child is a bully, are yourselves bullying.

Some of the comments on here have been vile.

The boy is 6. SIX and you all expect him, apparently overnight, to be able to 100% stand up to another child, be able to say no properly, be able to resist all attempts to draw him in, to be able to tell a bully he is being unkind with no fear of repercussion to himself. There are many adults who don't manage that. Of course it has to start now, but it is going to take time.

I posted upthread about my dd. She has had issues just like OP's son for years. We have done all the things people suggest on here. The school has been massively influential, some years/teachers brilliant and others not. We have an Ethan, and sometimes my dd is the Ethan. I would love that child to move schools, but dd has to learn to keep away from her, and it is an ongoing battle to get her to do that.

mn is full of perfect parents today.

OP, find the good advice on here and ignore the rest. You can't change things overnight, and your son is not horrible, he needs to learn to make good choices, that is not something that will happen overnight.

feeling a bit fragile right now as I have pretty low confidence and this thread has basically made me feel like a rubbish parent! I know I should've expected that from AIBU, but I think it's the attacks on my DS, who is my world, that has rocked me a bit and made me feel I'm failing him

Yeah . AIBU is hard core . I have learnt to not post problems here . It’s way hard . Sorry you feel shit . Posted but should have realised you were shit kicked

Well said steppe

Have not RTWT and don’t need to . Last few pretty much summed it up

@OP you are very welcome! I agree with you and the others, just take the good and helpful!

Thanks steppemum

My son was friends in secondary school with someone the teachers said was the worse behaved boy and a bad influence. I trusted my son to know right from wrong and if his friend did something he wasn’t comfortable with to walk away. This boy wasn’t an angel but he also wasn’t a devil and he gave my son confidence as he was very reserved and a total geek, and my son helped him to control his behaviour. My son and his friend both started university together this September and are straight a students. So I think u need to stop demonising this child and accept your son is allowed to make friends with who he likes not who you like

Good lord just caught up on the thread and seen that the op feels bullied!
So bullying is a problem now is it? Posters on here are probably just being influenced by others so that makes what everyone has said ok doesn’t it???
Glad that after so many pages of people agreeing that the op needs to crack down on her sons bullying behaviour (because that’s common fucking sense) she’s decided to agree with the tiny minority of posts and carry on with what she’s been doing (which isn’t working).
If your son needs to be surrounded by people encouraging him to behave that’s nothing for you to be proud of. Be proud of the other kids last year that were keeping yours in line!
You may think your son is delightful but remember you have rose tinted glasses as a mother and if he’s being mean to kids they and their parents won’t be so forgiving. To a lot of parents your son is probably an ‘Ethan’ that they want their kids to avoid.

OP - of course you think your ds is 'a good kid' and you love him etc etc, but you need to think of how he's operating in relation to other kids.
Clearly he comes first in your eyes but if he's hurting and upsetting other children you need to get him to stop as his bad behaviour is affecting others. He has free will, he and you need to acknowledge he has hurt others, try to make amends and get over this Ethan spectre/excuse. Don't keep patting yourself on the back over your parenting when you're clearly not doing a good job in this instance.

steppemum
I wouldn't expect a child of 6 to suddenly develop all of that overnight. Anyone who would expect that would be really unreasonable.

I do expect a parent to accept if her child is bullying other children and hold them accountable for their actions without finding reasons why it's technically not their child's fault.

What struck me was that despite saying she's taking on board some suggestions (Which is great!) there's still a sense of 'we'll help but it's not his fault because he is a nice kid'. In my experience unless that mentality shifts to a more realistic ' my child is a nice child who can make poor choices which are their responsibility' then not much tends to change in terms of attitude. Those children end up learning fairly quickly that if they can find an external factor to attribute blame to, then home might check them on behaviours etc but the child always retains that card of 'because mum will take my side'

By secondary that is more problematic. E.g. I've met some really nice teenagers. They're great to teach and perfectly likeable, but they also have a sense of 'but it's not my fault because...' and that hinders them. I've also seen similar students have been happy to dish it out and home have attributed cause to friends etc but suddenly when other children make it clear they aren't happy, the child who has been happy to dish it out is suddenly crying victim and home swoop in fussing because all the other children are 'being so mean'.

Krouse - massive difference between age 6 and 11+

*I have only been bullied once in my life (in a work environment 10 years ago), and was never bullied at school.

However, now I feel like I'm being bullied on a mumsnet thread. For people so anti-bullying, this thread is full of bullies and you have all succeeded in making me feel shit. Well done*

Imagine how the child your son and Ethan are bullying, being mean to and their parents feel!

Imagine having a child crying in the morning saying I don't want to go to school because Ethan and sidekick want to be mean to me!

My son was the bullied child and it's awful!! He used to go and hide and lunchtime to get away from YOUR child!

sonandhelpneeded

so, because your son was bullied, it is OK for your to bully a stranger on the internet?

Your point was made pages ago, and yet you are still piling in to be nasty. You are bullying.

Perhaps you should read this thread, there are lots of suggestions on it about how to take responsibility for your actions, maybe you could
try some of them.....

The op isn’t being bullied. The vast majority of posters are agreeing that she needs to stop pussyfooting around and claiming what a great kid her son is while he bullys others because it’s clear as day to most people that is what needs doing! The majority agreeing over something blindingly obvious isn’t bullying. Bullying is what the ops son is doing while she stands back and allows it. If pointing that out makes her feel like shit then so be it. Maybe she’ll actually address her sons behaviour rather than continuing to pass the buck.
I bet the bullied child feels even more like shit.

OP has posted for help.
She has said she will take on board suggestions and get tougher.

But because you have all piled in to be revolting to her ds and label him as everything under the sun (I notice that you all said we should stop demonizing Ethan, but you are happy to demonize her ds)
Because you have piled in in such a horrible way, not surprisingly the Op has defended her son!

really seriously, look back at what people have said, it has been a massive pile on. Very few sensible constructive posts in between, loads of shouts of 'your ds is a bully and you are terrible parent'

no bumsex - there is a big difference between loads of people saying that the OP needs to step up, (fair enough) and this thread.

@steppemum OP was/is I'm complete denial the her so is wrong! He does occasional mean things but normally lovely...

Those occasional mean things make another child's life hell!

I'm not attacking her child he's not reading this, I'm telling OP to stop feeling sorry for her child and start felling sorry for the child she's admitted he's being mean to!

@steppemum I'm not bullying her I'm telling her to parent and stop overly protecting her occasionally mean horrible child that she's blaming another child for... because of course it's the other child's fault not her parenting

I have read the whole thread, been following it since the beginning, and I disagree, it has been a pile on.

Yes it is AIBU, but that is no excuse.