Moral Dilemma - to sell this and pocket the cash?

[PersonaNonGarter]

I have a moral dilemma.

A Sponging Relative (‘SR’) has run up so much debt that he has finally been evicted from his property and is likely to be made bankrupt shortly. He is also a massive hoarder. Recently, my aunt went to visit SR and suggested he part with some toys rather than pack them before eviction. The toys were given to my DC.

The toys turn out to be worth a lot of money and I will sell them rather than have them take up space - DC aren’t going to play with them. Should I :

1. Pocket the cash and give it to my DC on some way like a holiday
2. Give it to the very skint SR
3. Give the cash to some of the people SR has sponged off.

He doesn’t sponge off me although he has tried. In law, I know they were a gift and are mine/DCs. But morally...?

MyOtherProfile, a 'talented Oxbridge graduate' will have had to work very hard to get there and come through the degree. He or she does not then let all their potential slide away and end up bankrupt simply because it seems more attractive to live off other people. That may be what this man is saying, perhaps because he feels it is more face-saving than the reality or he does not actually realise the state he is in.

Anyway, OP, even if you can't think of him, think of his creditors. A landlord, for instance, may well actually need the money.

They were given to your kids as a gift.
If you return them they will get trashed.
If you sell them and give the money to your relative; you should deduct the cost of your time for the effort in selling them.
Giving the huge cost of his debt relative to the value of the toys; I would just sell the toys & treat your kids.

I'm assuming he has no idea of the toys' value. OP obviously did her research, though, once she'd been given them.

Do people really think someone who is thousands in debt and about to go bankrupt plus has a hoarding problem has no MH issues?

This thread is really interesting. I’ve read many a time on MN that people who give money to the homeless are naive, foolish, that homeless people will just spend it on drugs - never any regard for their circumstances, MH issues, what got them there.

Now here we have a thread about a homeless person who the OP has told us as facts is bad with money, has a partner addicted to drugs, and is homeless through bad choices and becuase people have finally stopped enabling his behaviour by giving him money.

And almost everyone is saying the OP should spend considerable time and resources to make some money to give to this person?! Who she knows will make bad choices with it and buy drugs for the partner?!

OP why not put it back on the aunt. Tell her your children don’t want the toys so either aunt can come get them or you’ll sell them. There is no way I’d be giving SR the money!

I think you’ve had an unnecessary hard time on this thread, OP.

if it helps here is how I rationalise a similar/different situation....

DS is dyslexic, he can't read books. Anything he wants to read

Elderly Relative knows this but has given DS his own old book collection (circa 60 years old)

Most of it is junk, but with the odd book that is worth money.

I am planning to keep them for a year or so then dispose either via ebay or charity or recycle. I will use any money on my DS, either buying audio books or a bike or something.

Relative doesn't want to throw away the books but is using me to do it. I think its the same in this circumstance - he would not sell or trash, but can bring himself to give away.

Once given they are up to me to do with what I want. I wouldn't trash tem but dispose of them responsibly.

@Doyoumind and @Littlepond, finally, some other posters with a lick of sense. I was starting to get whiplash from shaking my head in disappoint from others posting.

Littlepond, this is a bit different from giving a homeless person money of your own. These toys were this man's property until very recently. I (if I were the OP - this is how I would feel, anyway) have no right to make a profit from that, and withhold the profits from this man (or his creditors), just because he doesn't know their value. In a way, it's less about the impact of the money on him than about the impact of committing such a morally dubious act on me myself.

I think giving them back to the aunt, telling her you've discovered their value and she should do with them as she sees fit, is a good option.

If you found a wallet with £2000 in it and ID so you knew where a it came from would you keep it? Would it be ok to keep it if you found out it belonged to someone horrible?

Not every person who does bad things has MH issues! Many make a conscious decision to see themselves as better than others. Once everyone else is seen as lesser they can do what they want guilt free. Lots of these people mess it up and become known as spongers, users, criminals etc. Others, often from privileged backgrounds, learn from their peers and can become extremely successful. They often have a superficial level of charm, an enormous sense of being entitled, and are very skilled at spotting vulnerability in others. As examples I give you POTUS and the members of ERG.

Thanks for all the replies. I’m afraid I have discarded the ones about me being a shitty person with a wrong moral compass .

I have given the man hours of advice (never money - he has taken enough from others) and made calls on his behalf. I’ve offered non-monetary assistance (and did again at his eviction). I sent food (supermarket delivery). He is a total sponger. He is charming and convincing, and completely without care or insight.

If I was going to do 3, there would be plenty of people to give to (not aunt, she has spent but not lent).

Does anyone know someone like SR? Would you give them the money?

OP, I don't know how you think anything but 2 is the correct thing to do. You weren't even given these toys by the owner of them! Do you think it would be ok for somebody else to give away your possessions.

And even if you had been given then by the owner, this is a relative, most decent people would go back and say that having found out the value you are handing them back.

You really are a piece of work, because it is pretty clear what you wanted to do.

You are not giving him money. You are returning his possessions whI have somebody decided to give away.

You really should take a hard look st yourself, because you are a shitty person.

talented Oxbridge graduate' will have had to work very hard to get there and come through the degree. He or she does not then let all their potential slide away and end up bankrupt simply because it seems more attractive to live off other people
If only this were true. Dh and I are both Oxbridge graduates and sadly not all of our peers went on to make good choices or lead happy, sensible lives.

He is being evicted! He has nowhere to out his possessions and that's why his mum passed them on to OP, to get rid of them.

Exactly, MOP. The ones who didn't are likely to have had something go wrong somewhere, not to have acted wilfully (crime etc. perhaps, but ending up in a state like this man's? Who does that on purpose?)
(Full disclosure, also Oxbridge, hence feeling I could talk about what being there takes)

Thanks for all the replies. I’m afraid I have discarded the ones about me being a shitty person with a wrong moral compass.

I have given the man hours of advice (never money - he has taken enough from others) and made calls on his behalf. I’ve offered non-monetary assistance (and did again at his eviction). I sent food (supermarket delivery). He is a total sponger. He is charming and convincing, and completely without care or insight.

Sounds like you've made your mind up then, why ask?

Also, you've done a lot for someone who earlier you said you hadn't had much to do with?

I'd be telling SR how much they are worth. Would they have given them away knowing how much they're worth?
How did you realise they are worth money? The last thing I'd do if I received a gift is to Google how much it's worth...

AnElderlyLadyOfMediumHeight i would expect you to know better than that, also beinf an Oxbridge grad. You must have met plenty of people over your time there who were very entitled, felt the world owed them something because of their background or just because they had got where they were, and expected not to have to make muxh effort but to walk into golden opportunities.

^^ This! (from Aceinthehole)
Go ahead and sell the toys and keep the money - it's not me will have to deal with my conscience afterwards -, but don't be narked (or surprised) if you don't get 100% cheerleading and absolution here.

Dh and I are both Oxbridge graduates and sadly not all of our peers went on to make good choices or lead happy, sensible lives.

This doesn't necessarily invalidate the post you've quoted.

Alfie, have you RTFT? Re the ‘handing back’. I am surprised you can so passionately state what a shitty person I am. I am lovely and I help my family out all the time - unlike SR.

I received an unsolicited box of toys. I got them because aunt was trying to help clear the property ahead of eviction. These toys would now cost me time and money to deal with which ever option I choose (unless I stick them in a cupboard).

Your are ignoring the replies calling you out on your very questionable behaviour. Stop and think you are in no way entitled to keep this 'money'

MOP, one or two, yes. But I didn't tend to move in those circles, tbh (partly because I wasn't at that kind of college) Nobody I knew well/actually spent a lot of time with (enough to judge them) fitted that description.

Personally, I think any course of action which doesn’t first involve letting the aunt know exactly how much the toys are worth, and that your dc won’t play with them, is morally wrong.

You don’t have to incur costs, you don’t have to hand them over to a man who sounds like he needs help managing his money.

But you do have to let the aunt know.

He sounds like a family friend of ours, incredibly bright and oxford degree, but had undiagnosed autism until the age of 56. He had no real concept of money and so ran up huge debts despite his intelligence.