Moral Dilemma - to sell this and pocket the cash?

[PersonaNonGarter]

I have a moral dilemma.

A Sponging Relative (‘SR’) has run up so much debt that he has finally been evicted from his property and is likely to be made bankrupt shortly. He is also a massive hoarder. Recently, my aunt went to visit SR and suggested he part with some toys rather than pack them before eviction. The toys were given to my DC.

The toys turn out to be worth a lot of money and I will sell them rather than have them take up space - DC aren’t going to play with them. Should I :

1. Pocket the cash and give it to my DC on some way like a holiday
2. Give it to the very skint SR
3. Give the cash to some of the people SR has sponged off.

He doesn’t sponge off me although he has tried. In law, I know they were a gift and are mine/DCs. But morally...?

We have someone in the family like SR, there is also more to it than being a sponger. However, I wouldn’t give it to him as he will fritter it away, I would give it to your aunt.

How did you realise they are worth money? The last thing I'd do if I received a gift is to Google how much it's worth...

That's what I was wondering, also if the OP knew her children weren't going to be into the toys, (wondering what they are) then the time to say this was when the aunt bought them round.

Although i'm wondering if given the value of the toys, the children have even been given a chance to play with them.

OP you seem to be trying to convince mumsnet and yourself that your relative is so terrible and undeserving that it makes selling this stuff for your own gain ok!

It doesn't matter how bad a person he is. You should not be gaining from this stuff.

You've ignored posts which say your moral compass is out of line- because it quite simply is. It's a shame but there you go.

Also, you've done a lot for someone who earlier you said you hadn't had much to do with?

Yes, I have practical/professional skills that I have tried to use on his behalf (with some success). He is extremely self-absorbed and didn’t ever remember the name of my DC until recently. Not because we didn’t send Christmas cards (and presents) etc, but because he is like that. My DC had never had a present from him before.

@notrighteousthesedays Do you know SR? If so, I am really sorry...

Tell your aunt that you have realised these toys are worth a lot of money. Since your children have no interest in them should,

1. you sell the toys and give the money to SR or creditors? If so, who?
2. donate the toys to a toy museum?

See, where she goes from there. If she tells you they are definitely yours, then do what you wish with them.

It doesn't matter how bad a person he is. You should not be gaining from this stuff.
Exactly.
Your moral compass is way off, OP. It’s coming across as though you always intended to sell and keep the money, and wanted mumsnet to back you up. Trying to justify your behaviour by painting your relative as an unpleasant person.
Your poor aunt - I feel really sorry for her in all this, not only does she have a ‘SR’, but a grabby CF niece.

Doesn't matter how self absorbed he is. Or that he didn't remember your kids names. None of that makes profiting from this stuff ok.

It's not yours to to profit from in this way. Talk to your aunt- only you won't, be use you might loose out.....

I wouldn’t give him the money. No way. I think, if it was at all practical, I would try to find out what family member/friend he owed 2k to and then contact them to let them know the worth of the toys. They could collect them themselves and sell them if they wanted their money back. I don’t think you should keep the money but I also don’t think you should have the hassle of selling the toys when none of this is anything to do with you.

As for your aunt, I would have to contact her and tell her he has a moral obligation to begin paying debts back and therefore you will be offering the toys to someone he has sponged off. I wouldn’t lie.

For me, that seems the least morally corrupt way of doing this. I certainly don’t think you should keep them or him.

anelderlylady I do see that difference, but OP would have to spend time and effort to make the money, so it is making sacrifices to give money to this person. She has said she isn’t able to return them herself so while I see the slight moral difference there is no way I think OP should be putting herself out to get money to this man.

Sorry typo, 'be use' should say 'because'.

If the toys were worth a couple of hundred it would be ok. But they are potentially worth a couple of thousand. The moral thing to do is thank SR for the gift again (as I assume you have already done this?) for your children and check they know the potential value. His circumstances are irrelevant.

I think people are misunderstanding how difficult it can be to deal with hoarders. The OP did not want these items, has no use for them, and neither the aunt nor the cousin appear to be reasonable people. If they were reasonable, OP could say, look, this stuff is worth a lot of money, why not sell it? And they would either tell her she is welcome to do so or offer to split the cash with her or something. But they want her to house the items, despite the fact that it is a nuisance to her. Why should OP have to give space to these items that she doesn't want?

What is your relationship with the aunt like? Will she come round and notice the absence of the toys? Will
she chat to your kids and mention them? Or is she just not in your lives like that?

In effect the expectation of hoarding these toys has now been passed to your kids. You /your kids are at liberty to reject that role.

I would sell and save the ££ for the children, UNLESS it would cause big upset with the aunt and it is a relationship you value. In which case I would explain the situation to her. And she can, if she wabts, pick them up next time she sees you.

Keep and decide when the dust has settled. They are likely to go up in value more than the money would generate in a bank anyway.

I agree OP doesn't need to hoard these items herself if she doesn't want to. In which case she should offer to give them back to her aunt. It's really very simple.

Only if aunt is aware of the value and is happy for the to be sold should that happen. OP takes what she needs to cover costs, returns rest of money to Aunt.

Or if OP has insufficient time / inclination to sell them herself she tells aunt she needs her to collect.

It's really not complicated unless you attempt to twist and turn the circumstances to somehow make it seem ok for OP to profit from these items.

I would consult with your aunt & take her advice.

Morally you can't just sell them and spend the money. They were given to you because your aunt thought the kids would like them. Not because she wanted to gift you thousands of pounds from a man who's about to go bankrupt!!!

Who does he owe money to? Family, friends etc or just bills?
Is his landlord a large housing assoc or a private landlord whose possibly struggling to pay the mortgage because SR hasn't paid him?

Yeah we'd all love a few random thousands chucked at us but you know it isn't yours to spend.

Tell aunt someone saw the toys and suggested a valuation. You've realised they're worth thousands which could go some way towards paying his debts. If thry go back to SR to sell potentially the money will be spent or absorbed so what would she suggest doing?

What Startng said /\

Op is focusing on how much effort it would be to sell them, when that's a moot point.

If you don't want them cluttering up the house, and aren't going to let the children play with them, then tell the aunt to collect them.

If you care about your aunt then spending time selling them would be a kind thing to do. Obviously keep your costs. The money should go to someone he owes money to!
I would do this after telling her that's what you will do. Don't give her any option to pick them up from you, that would be enabling her hoarding behaviour

OP, it seems like you're determined to sell the toys and keep the money and to be fair it's not a life changing sum. If you decide to do this though you really need to get rid of this deluded notion that you're a good/moral person who's being forced by evil SR and his hoarder mother to secretly sell these toys and pocket the money.

I think you would be betraying everyone if you sold the toys and pocketed the cash: it's knowingly profiting ahead of all SR's creditors; and it is a total betrayal of the family who value family heirlooms (and if they are that valuable, you can hardly argue they were just junk...) and who gave them to you in good faith. You would most definitely be morally bankrupt yourself to do this and tbh, I do not understand why you do not see that.

However, you have been given a bit of a poison chalice! If you keep them, it's bloody annoying, unappreciated and pointless. If you sell them and pick on a random relative to give the money to, that is totally unfair on other relatives. It is not really feasible to give the toys back to a homeless SR. Legally speaking, it sounds like SR is likely to have loads of official creditors who are entitled to money and there will be an official, legal pecking order in terms of who should be at the front of the queue...

Can you not speak to the Aunt who gave you the toys and explain the situation?

In effect the expectation of hoarding these toys has now been passed to your kids.

That is exactly what has happened. The family were once well off with large houses and lots of space. Reality has forced downsizing and all the clutter has been packed up and is constantly being moved round as more bad decisions are made. It is very sad BUT it is also part of a pattern of entitlement and delusion.

Aunt has own issues re hoarding. It is not possible to sit down in her house except in one chair, need to move plants out of the bath in order to run one, etc. She would be incensed by a sale not just of the toys but of any of the books, old clothes etc passed in over the years. She is unlikely to find out about it.

What would you do if they weren’t worth a lot, OP?
Please just give them back to your aunt - or tell her what you plan to do.
Your continued ignorance of posters suggesting this, doesn’t make you look good at all neither do your cherry picked replies.

I should also say to anyone telling me not to keep the ‘money’:

I haven’t been given money - I have been given a box of stuff that requires action/resources if it was ever to become stuff.