Moral Dilemma - to sell this and pocket the cash?

[PersonaNonGarter]

I have a moral dilemma.

A Sponging Relative (‘SR’) has run up so much debt that he has finally been evicted from his property and is likely to be made bankrupt shortly. He is also a massive hoarder. Recently, my aunt went to visit SR and suggested he part with some toys rather than pack them before eviction. The toys were given to my DC.

The toys turn out to be worth a lot of money and I will sell them rather than have them take up space - DC aren’t going to play with them. Should I :

1. Pocket the cash and give it to my DC on some way like a holiday
2. Give it to the very skint SR
3. Give the cash to some of the people SR has sponged off.

He doesn’t sponge off me although he has tried. In law, I know they were a gift and are mine/DCs. But morally...?

Sell them and sent the money to the accountant to offset SRs back taxes?

.they belong to him and the money is his. It isn't up to you to decide how his assets will be spent, you can't just decide he doesn't deserve his own money because you think you could spend it better.

They are not SR’s - they belong to my DC. That is the position in fact and law.
They are not part of SRs assets and they were not divested to avoid the effects of bankruptcy.
It is not his ‘money’, at present they are toys in a box.
The idea that I ‘should have said no’ required me to know what they were when they were handed over - I didn’t.
The stuff about me being grabby - the situation is unsolicited and were it not for the value all of it would be going to the charity shop.

Honestly, if you are going to take the time to post rants at people about karma, CF etc: RTFT. Otherwise, I’m going to read that as needy haterz having their own bad day and dismiss, obviously.

To those people who think 3, would you look for all creditors and give them each a bit, or would you give chunks to the couple of nice people you know?

Sell them and split proceeds with him. You get half for making the effort to sell it he gets half a providing the original toys. you could always say to him why don't you give this to xy&z who have previously helped you?

Sorry cross posted. How are they your dc's toys? He has been storing them for you for all these years? Did you even know they were there?

It’s clear that these toys were a gift to your DC.

Far from having a hazy moral compass it seems to me that you have been thinking about this so carefully that you have over complicated the situation.

To those people who think 3, would you look for all creditors and give them each a bit, or would you give chunks to the couple of nice people you know?

You don't get to choose who receives the money. There's a set order as to who gets paid first upon bankruptcy.

The toys despite what you keep saying do not belong to your children, they belong to you soon to be bankrupt relative, and should be returned to him to be used as assets to help pay off creditors in the future. Considering you have said that if they didn't have value you would be getting rid of them, you and your children clearly wouldn't miss them (just the money they're worth) so I don't understand why you won't just return them.

You’re hilarious OP. Everyone who think she you’re greedy is having a bad day or are a hater? Or, perhaps they just recognise this for what this is - you seeing pound signs over doing the decent thing. If you thought it was right and fair, there would never have been any need to post here. Instead you wilfully dismiss anyone who dares to disagree with you.

Why do people insist these toys belong to the SR?

OP states in her first post that they were given to her DC.

The OP was given the toys in good faith because the SR/aunt wanted to keep them in the family rather than give them away. The OP didn’t want them, but instead of going back and saying this to give them the opportunity to find another solution, looked up their value and wants to sell and keep the money. SR, who originally owned the items, is on the verge of bankruptcy (he and the aunt also sound like vulnerable adults - hoarding is reflective of poor executive function, often related to a disability or MH issue). OP does not intend telling them - they will never find out, according to the OP. This, apparently, helps make it ‘OK’.
OP asked on here for moral advice on this without ever having had any intention of doing anything other than keep the money and not tell the SR/aunt. There is also a grey area over whether the items could truly have been gifted in law as the SR has a bankruptcy looming (and to be honest about this, if the Trustee in Bankruptcy asks, OP, it is not just CFery, it’s fraud).

Everyone who think she you’re greedy is having a bad day or are a hater
Or more likely just hasn't rtft. As pps have said, giving cash back to SR would be like giving cash to a homeless pwrson on the street. Pretty much all of us know that's a bad idea.

I really don't see why anyone who has rtft would still think giving anything to SR is a good idea.

Sorry, hit send too soon. If the OR asks you, OP, and you lie about the items and their value, that would be fraud.

About who to give the proceeds to: It partly depends on who was most harmed & the amount. I would lean towards helping family/nice people, though. Shafted as landlord was, they should have had insurance.

Definitely sell them and put the money in savings for the kids. They are yours and if you hadn't checked on ebay you would have probably just dropped them to the local charity shop like you will probably end up doing with the other shite you were gifted. The other creditors are not your problem. Happy spending :)

I would give SR any money, he will just piss it away and look for more from you.

The toys were given to your kids, i would wait until the new year then sell them and put that money in your kids savings as its their money not yours. A gift freely given is no longer the gifters.

I would sell them, bank the money and wait for the dust to settle. Don’t do anything with it yet. See what happens with the bankruptcy.

At a point in the future (not so soon after being given the toys) I would decide what to do.

It’s a version of the “stick them in the garage” option but you’re just delaying the decision on the cash.

I’d probably want to give it to the people I personally knew who had been screwed over, with an explanation. But not if that would get back to your aunt or SR, because life’s too short for that drama.

I don’t think you’d be morally bankrupt to just keep the money, personally.

Or go and speak to a charity you like about donating them to them - make them aware of the value. Something that makes you feel good about disposing of them.

Sell them, cover your outlay for doing so, and donate the proceeds to Crisis or similar charity. I know the kind of person you're talking about OP and I completely understand your view of your family member.

Actually, I have read the full thread and had a perfectly good day. I'm also not a hater lol OP you are just a random person on the internet, I have zero hate for you.

However, if convincing yourself otherwise makes you feel validated in behaving like a greedy, deceitful human being then go ahead...batter in.

NoSquirrels suggestion to wait a bit before deciding is a good one. I also like the idea of putting the money into your DCs' savings accounts. The toys were a gift to them after all.

I have RTFT and agree with sinshine’s articulate post

The fact that you would gladly swan off on a £2000 holiday, paid for by treasured family toys being sold behind your relatives back while said relative goes bankrupt is disgusting. I mean it says everything really doesn't it?

*What he chooses to do with these items upon learning their monetary value is up to him. Regardless of whether he wants to cherish them forever, pay towards his debts or piss the money up the wall....they belong to him and the money is his. It isn't up to you to decide how his assets will be spent, you can't just decide he doesn't deserve his own money because you think you could spend it better.^

He was willing to pass them down the family line although wouldn't have got rid so agreed to give them to your children in good faith. You have vetted their monetary value before giving to the children and decided they won't play with them as they are now valuable to you. Bloody lovely that is.

I can't believe people are seriously suggesting giving toys worth ££££ to kids to trash.

If I was that child, I'd want to know, once I'd grown up, why my parents had been so stupid to give them to me and didn't cash them in or save the money!

The correct thing to do, I think, is to keep the toys as an investment for your kids when they're older.

They were given to the kids, you're using them for the benefit of the kids.

As the toys were given to your children I would leave them boxed and put them in the loft for when they are adults. Also the aunt suggested giving the toys to your DC to keep them in the family.

Selling them and distributing the money to debtors is wrong, they are not yours to sell and although valuable the money is likely to only be a token by the time everyone is paid.

SR clearly has some serious issues, the inability to live a grown up life, hold down a job and budget despite being extremely intelligent suggests some mental health issues or SEN. Hoarding is a form of OCD. He sounds like he may have needed support rather than loans.

Definitely.

If SR didn’t have sense to do that himself- let your children enjoy it. Your the one with the initiative afterall.

If the SR and aunt decided to give these things to OP/her DC then the items do belong to OP and her DC in law. When you give something to another person, they can choose to put it in a cupboard, set fire to it, sell it or have sex with it - it has become theirs.

The idea that I ‘should have said no’ required me to know what they were when they were handed over - I didn’t.
The stuff about me being grabby - the situation is unsolicited and were it not for the value all of it would be going to the charity shop.

So you took a box of items with no idea of the contents - even though you know your aunt is a hoarder? That doesn’t add up. She could have been giving you any old junk.

You claim ‘the situation is unsolicited’, but by taking the items, regardless of whether you knew their value, you accepted that situation. You’re looking to rationalise your decision to sell up and keep the cash.