To think that parents who don't vaccinate their children are despicable

[LaBelleSauvage]

Just that. And I think they ought to be sanctioned in some way similar to in Australia. Children shouldn't suffer because of parents' stupidity

Apologies at the delay to getting back to some of your questions.

I'm not against all medical care no, I actually have private health insurance. However it's quite common for men in my community to not seek medical help, my dad has done some terrible DIYs when he really should have had stitches.

You won't find much about it online as travellers don't really put anything in writing, it's hard to explain but it's a way of life where family values mean an awful lot.

My parents were not very educated no. This means nothing in my opinion. My dad is an extremely intelligent business owner who earns a lot of money and he has had 2 years of primary school education.

I wasn't vaccinated, neither was my dad's family and so on. My mother was. I chose to do the same with my children but I wouldn't be in any was against them getting them for themselves when they're older.

My DM never vaccinated me and I am fine . How DARE You call her despicable

Yes. YOU are fine. Just like lots of people were fine without vaccinations before they were invented. But thousands of children weren't - they got sick, became disabled, died.

This now doesn't happen because of vaccinations and herd immunity. People like your mother are undermining that, putting not just people like you at risk but other people's children or the immuno compromised at risk.

Saying "I'm fine" is like saying "my mother made the choice to drink and drive and drove me home from a party while wasted on vodka but that was her choice and I'm fine so how dare you call drink drivers despicable".

Anti vaxers can only exist because the vast majority of people are immunised.
This ^^
But then anti vaxxers will smugly and patronisingly claim their child not getting ill proves there's no need for vaccines.

It's like that so called off grid family who claimed they cured Scarlet Fever with herbs and stuff.

The thing I don't get is that anti vaxxers seem to be middle class types who've decided they're going to be cool and unconventional so seem to think they are super enlightened. They tend to talk about how much research they've done but I can't see anyone with any level of research knowledge looking at research and coming to the conclusion that crystal healing and organic veg will keep the mumps away.

Pinkyyy

How would you feel if your child passed on a disease to another child and they became disabled or died as a result?

Is that ok? Is your freedom to make a choice ok if it makes someone seriously ill?

I saw that too, Pimpernell. Terrifying.

As regards the idea that you show respect for your family by sticking to the decisions your parents made for you, surely you have to do a bit of critical thinking about that? What about a child whose parents chose to take her back to Africa for FGM? One would hope she would make a different choice for her own daughter. Parents who fed their children on junk food - can those children as adults not decide to eat a healthier diet? Parents who don't believe in evolution - is their child bound to ignore all the scientific evidence too?

Steve Jobs tried to cure his cancer using complementary medicine. Sometimes very intelligent people make very stupid medical decisions.

my dad has done some terrible DIYs when he really should have had stitches.

My dad is an extremely intelligent business owner

Are you sure about that

Thanks for answering pinky. I am sure your dad is very smart but I wonder if his stance on issues such as vaccination might have been different had he been more educated?

We're currently having a massive measles outbreak in my area, the largest in many years, because one cultural group has a "tradition" of not vaccinating.

Measles outbreak tops 100

Lifelong disabilities are fairly common following measles. It also causes about 90,000 fatalities worldwide per year. I wonder about cultures or families that promote this "tradition".

TacoLover I find that quite rude. Just because someone would rather patch u their own sliced open finger than got to A&E, doesn't mean to say they're unintelligent. Society seems to believe that education is the be all and end all and I like to look at some of the people in my community who earn millions and haven't been educated past primary school and feel confident that this isn't the case.

BakedBeans47 I don't think that you need schooling to be educated. He has actually told me in the past that he did a lot of research on the matter before blindly committing to not vaccinate. He is actually anti-vaxx

@MissConductUS

The link doesn't seem to work in Europe. Any copying and pasting you could do would be much appreciated.

Anti-vaxxers in this country are only able to enjoy that luxury because the majority of people vaccinate and so the risk to their children is greatly reduced by the vaxxers. We protect their children and give them this sense of security and safety to not vaccinate.
If the diseases were rife like in the past and wiping out large populations of children and leaving devastating complications, then it would be a very different picture.
The anti-vaxxers I know are living a life where the risk of catching diseases is so reduced they can take this option in the knowledge they will most likely be safe.
What they don’t realise is most people who vaccinate, do not actually like it. It’s not something to be enjoyed.

pinkyyy there's a world of difference between intelligent and educated.
Education gives intelligent people the ability to make informed decisions. If you educate yourself properly about vaccinations you can't fail to understand the benefits.
Not vaccinating because of family values is as bad as not vaccinating because you believe the bullshit peddled by anti-vaxxers. You're risking your children's lives because of uninformed family values.

Could you honestly say to you children ' sorry you've got measles kids but mummy thinks family values are more important than your health' It's unfathomable.
It's as bad as when a Jehovah's witness told my nan she shouldn't have dialysis or consider a kidney transplant. Instead she should put her faith in God 🙄

I doubt their millions will mean much to them if their kids die.

Could you honestly say to you children ' sorry you've got measles kids but mummy thinks family values are more important than your health' It's unfathomable.

Or even worse " sorry Mrs X that your son died after catching measles from my DC but my choices and values were mire important to me than your son".

@pinkyyy there been some research on the information available related to vaccinations - especially internet based info. It showed a heavy bias toward the anti-vaxx movement with many of the professional looking websites actually funded by anti-vaxxers. I would only trust information from a medical professional.
I know a professor in immunology and I've seen him deliver lectures on vaccinations. I trust his info and research. He is unquestionably pro vaccine.

BlaaBlaaBlaa I feel targeted by you. You're now trying to belittle me which is why I didn't want to go into my reasons to begin with. Straight away people think im an 'uneducated traveller' and dismiss anything I have to say.

I'm targeted by you @Pinkyyy because you seek to undermine hers immunity. And I rely on herd immunity because I am immunocompromised.
Enough pretending to be a victim here.

bellinisurge I'm not pretending to be a victim and you should stop expecting the entire population of Britain to make their life choices because of your condition and calling them names if they choose not to.

@Amaaboutthis I completely agree.

I also think that if individual children do not fall into those groups and their parents still refuse to vaccinate them then GPS and hospitals etc should have the right to ban them from waiting rooms. Where sick and immunocompromised people who fall into those categories or are vaccinated or are awaiting vaccination are sat innocently at higher risk than what as society we cannot avoid. I stand by my comment entirely that it is despicable and cavalier and uneducated.

I'm not pretending to be a victim and you should stop expecting the entire population of Britain to make their life choices because of your condition and calling them names if they choose not to

That’s the corner stone of a decent society. That we make choices to benefit society as a whole, not for our own ignorant reasons

I feel targeted by you and your irresponsible decisions. I'm sure people who are immunocompromised would feel targeted by you if they got ill or even worse died because of your decision.

You are uneducated about vaccinations - I can't comment about anything else. You're putting lives at risk for the sake of family values. It would appear you haven't even researched it. You're just going on what your dad said was right. What about your children's dad. Did he get a say?

In no way have I linked your level of education to the fact you're a traveller. This is of no consequence to me.

I also think that if individual children do not fall into those groups and their parents still refuse to vaccinate them then GPS and hospitals etc should have the right to ban them from waiting rooms. Where sick and immunocompromised people who fall into those categories or are vaccinated or are awaiting vaccination are sat innocently at higher risk than what as society we cannot avoid. I stand by my comment entirely that it is despicable and cavalier and uneducated

Absolutely. We had to avoid the GP’s waiting room and pharmacy when DD had shingles, and quite rightly so!

@Pinkyyy your last comment is fairly typical of what a lot of anti vaxxers say.
It's confirmed for me why so many of us see parents who can but and should vaccinate but don't as self absorbed and seemingly quite happy to carry on regardless of the effect their inertia has on others.

I imagine as a parent we all strive to bring our children up with a higher sense of empathy and consideration that your statement, if not then I guess we are lowering our collective expectations to those of akin to levels appreciated by a group of potholing enthusiasts