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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that parents who don't vaccinate their children are despicable

585 replies

LaBelleSauvage · 24/11/2018 01:30

Just that. And I think they ought to be sanctioned in some way similar to in Australia. Children shouldn't suffer because of parents' stupidity

OP posts:
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MaisyPops · 24/11/2018 14:37

I'm not pretending to be a victim and you should stop expecting the entire population of Britain to make their life choices because of your condition and calling them names if they choose not to.
In other words, I don't give a shiny fuck about how many people might risk critical illness and then I'll claim I'm targeted when people (unsurprisingly) call me out on the impact of my choices.

Pinkyyy · 24/11/2018 14:37

I don't make my choices to please the population of Mumsnet. I'm satisfied with the decisions I have made and I very strongly doubt you all make the important decisions in life with society in mind, especially those to do with my DC.

MissConductUS · 24/11/2018 14:39

carpet, sorry about the link not working, here's the article:
Measles Outbreak Tops 100 Cases In Rockland, Brooklyn

It's New York state's biggest outbreak in decades.

By Lanning Taliaferro, Patch Staff | Nov 21, 2018 1:22 pm ET | Updated Nov 21, 2018 1:52 pm ET

With 105 confirmed cases of measles in Rockland County and Brooklyn, New York is going through the worst outbreak in two decades. There are 76 confirmed cases of measles in Rockland County and 29 in Brooklyn.

Highly contagious, the disease can be dangerous, especially for babies and young children, as it can lead to pneumonia, brain damage, deafness and death.

It's the most measles cases since the epidemic of 1990-91 which was centered in New York City, according to the state's Communicable Disease Surveillance Report. In 1991, 2,306 cases of measles were confirmed in New York State.

The state's measles cases have been largely confined to the Hudson Valley, New York City and Long Island over the past decade, according to the most recent data from the state health department.

2016 - 1 case, in New York City
2015 - 7 total: 1 in Dutchess County, 6 in NYC
2014 - 32 total: 1 in Albany County, 1 in Monroe, 1 in Orange, 1 in Rensselaer, 1 in Rockland, 27 in NYC
2013 - 65 total: 2 in Nassau County, 1 in Rockland, 62 in NYC
2012 - 5 total: 1 in Ulster County, 4 in NYC
2011- 32 total: 3 in Nassau County, 2 in Rensselaer, 1 In Senica, 1 in Westchester, 25 in NYC
2010 - 8 total: 1 in Erie County, 1 in Nassau, 6 in NYC
2009 - 18 in NYC
2008 - 31 total: 1 in Nassau County, 1 in Suffolk, 29 in NYC
2007 - 0 cases
Nationally, the rates of people vaccinated against measles have been very stable since the vaccines for children program began in 1994, said Kate Fowlie at the Centers for Disease Control. In 2016, the overall national coverage for MMR vaccine among children aged 19—35 months was 91.1 percent. However, she said, at the county or lower levels, vaccine coverage rates may vary considerably.

This outbreak in the fall of 2018 is concentrated in the Orthodox Jewish communities of Brooklyn and Rockland.

Rockland health officials put restrictions on schools where the vaccination rate is less than 80 percent, requiring un-vaccinated students to stay home. The mandate affects more than 1,000 students in 34 private schools, and will apply until 21 days after the last measles case is confirmed in the county. Officials acknowledge that that could be months away.

In Brooklyn, health officials have reached out with notifications to schools, hospitals and ads and posters in the community.

"As the measles outbreak continues to spread relentlessly," said Rabbi Avi Greenstein, Executive Director of the Boro Park Jewish Community Council, "It is imperative that every member of our community protect themselves and their families by getting vaccinated. It is equally imperative to understand that prevention is key. As such, we need to take away the lesson of how important it is for every one of us to avail ourselves of modern medicine and not to trust in herd immunity, but rather to follow the vaccination schedule recommended by medical professionals to protect our families and our entire community."

The 2013 measles outbreak that hit Orthodox Jewish communities in Williamsburg and Borough Park, begun by a resident who had visited London, cost the city almost $400,000 to contain, a recent study found.

"Vaccine refusals and delays appeared to have propagated a large outbreak following importation of measles," researchers wrote in the Journal of the American Medical Association. "The United States remains at continued risk for importations of measles resulting in outbreaks."

With the 2018 outbreak this big, Rockland County officials warn people previously considered immune — that is, anyone born before 1957 or anyone who has receive two doses of measles vaccine — could catch the highly contagious disease.

Neighboring counties are watching developments closely.

Westchester County Health Commissioner Sherlita Amler recommended county residents verify their own measles vaccine status, and assured them in a press release Tuesday that the Health Department is closely monitoring the situation.

Highly contagious, measles is transmitted by airborne particles, droplets, and direct contact with the respiratory secretions of an infected person.

Measles typically is characterized by fever and rash. The rash usually starts on the face, proceeds down the body, and may include the palms and soles. The rash lasts several days. Symptoms can also include high fever, cough, runny nose and red, watery eyes.

Infected individuals are contagious from four days before rash onset through the fourth day after rash appearance, health officials said.

If you think you were exposed to measles, contact your health care provider before seeking care to prevent exposure to other patients. Tell the medical staff if you have fever and a rash and about any known exposures or international travel.

While this outbreak began due to visits between un-vaccinated members of Orthodox Jewish communities in Brooklyn, Rockland and Israel, there are large outbreaks around the globe.

"Measles remains a common disease in many parts of the world, including areas in Europe, Asia, the Pacific, and Africa," Fowlie said. "Worldwide, 19 cases of measles per 1 million persons are reported each year; about 89,780 die. In the United States, most of the measles cases result from international travel. The disease is brought into the United States by unvaccinated people who get infected in other countries."

MaisyPops · 24/11/2018 14:39

Nobody is saying you should make your decisions to please MN.
People are astounded at the level of arrogance anti vaxxers have when they are happy to rely on here immunity to protect their children whilst simultaneously openly saying how little they care about infecting imuno-compromised members of society.
It's astounding arrogance.

JacquesHammer · 24/11/2018 14:40

I'm satisfied with the decisions I have made and I very strongly doubt you all make the important decisions in life with society in mind, especially those to do with my DC

What a non-sequitur.

Of course you’re satisfied, your kid is protected by ours. Just be honest and tell people so they can decide whether they want to be around you.

My DD’s flu jab has been delayed. I’ve spent the last few weeks hoping people will be sensible if they have flu until such time as she can have it. I cannot imagine having that worry every day of my life and over countless conditions.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 24/11/2018 14:41

You really don't see the irony in your posts do you pinkyyy ?
Unless they have a specific medical condition vaccinations are the best things for your children 🙄

Pinkyyy · 24/11/2018 14:42

I don't rely on it. Why do you all assume that anyone who isn't vaccinated sits back and thinks that they're fine because everyone else is protecting them

Bittermints · 24/11/2018 14:42

I wish people wouldn't use the word 'research' so loosely. Research in this sort of context means scientific research. Painstaking work, taking years and years, starting with ethical approval for the study design, then gathering data, then analysing it, then writing up the results and submitting them to an academic journal, getting the peer reviews back, re-writing (a lot), getting it published, other scientists/clinicians reading it, considering it, amending their practice, documenting the results etc etc etc.

Not quite the same as typing into Google 'should I vaccinate my kids' and skim reading the first couple of results.

bellinisurge · 24/11/2018 14:42

Why is threatening me with death a reasonable life choice? I'm one of many thousands of immunocompromised people and you don't give a shit about us.

JacquesHammer · 24/11/2018 14:42

I don't rely on it. Why do you all assume that anyone who isn't vaccinated sits back and thinks that they're fine because everyone else is protecting them

You do know what herd immunity is, right?

Eatmycheese · 24/11/2018 14:43

@Pinkyyy actually I make a fair few decisions that I see as overall for society's good. That certainly included and will include vaccinations.

Declaring earnings and Paying tax
Recycling
Buying an electric car though my diesel was fine
Donating to charities
Helping at food banks
Making cakes for a friend who had no money for her children's birthday parties
Helping raise money at my children's schools and at other events
Vaccinating my three children and myself when pregnant.
Voting
Ethical consumerism (oxymoronic as it sounds)
Doing things for my community
Helping neighbours
Looking after my mum in her seventies who lives on her own and doesn't drive
Volunteering for things

Just off the top of my head.

I'm not virtue signalling I'm just seeking to show the mundane and normal things many of us do that enrich our society as a whole. I don't do them to impress or appease or be lauded by Mumsnet. That's just who I am.

Suppose not vaccinating is "just who you are"

Pinkyyy · 24/11/2018 14:44

You know what I'll not sit here and defend myself while people try and belittle my intelligence. Isn't it convenient that those comments started the moment I mentioned I was a traveller.

Carpetglasssofa · 24/11/2018 14:45

Thank you MissConduct

bellinisurge · 24/11/2018 14:46

Don't give a shit that you are a traveller. It makes no difference to me. However, you undermining heard immunity does make a difference to me. I don't care who you are or where you live. Your choices threaten me.

OffToBedhampton · 24/11/2018 14:46

@Pinkyyy I think you're getting a hard time on MN.
I disagree peraonally with your .immunisations views but that's your right to hold those views. Others make reasonable comments about the bigger picture and herd immunity, which I totally agree with, BUT this is UK and you still get the right as a parent to choose whatever your reasons.

So no, I don't disagree with you nor vilify you. I just wish that you would immunise because I & medical community think that's the right thing to do. Those views don't trump yours nor others as parents to their child though, as UK isn't big brother state.

JacquesHammer · 24/11/2018 14:47

You know what I'll not sit here and defend myself while people try and belittle my intelligence. Isn't it convenient that those comments started the moment I mentioned I was a traveller

Don’t want people to question your intelligence yet try to imply that people think you’re unreasonable because of your enthnicity?

I don’t think you’re stupid because you’re a traveller. I think you’re incredibly ignorant for your anti-vaxx stance.

You’ve done nothing to disabuse anyone of the notion.

doublethink · 24/11/2018 14:48

My kids are vaccinated, but I have a couple of friends whose children had very serious reactions to vaccines. Parents who have kids who die or have serious reactions are treated like mad liars when they point out the risk of vaccines - and yet, until the point when vaccines harmed their children, these parents were PRO-vaccine! This point often seems to be missed when people are hurling insults at anti-vax folk Hmm

OffToBedhampton · 24/11/2018 14:48

If you came round my house though, I'd expect you to tell me your stance. So beforehand ( eg IF I might be pregnant or immuno surpressed), that I had same respect for choice as you have taken up.

BlaaBlaaBlaa · 24/11/2018 14:49

Nah pinkyyy you were getting shit about this waaay before you mentioned you were a traveller. Nobody actually cares about that.

MaisyPops · 24/11/2018 14:49

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OffToBedhampton · 24/11/2018 14:50

That was reply to @Pinkyyy
You're right @doublethink we can't judge 100% and that is why I don't

formerbabe · 24/11/2018 14:50

I still don't understand why you're against vaccinations. You say it's cultural but that in itself isn't a concrete reason. If you mean it isn't the done thing in your community, then that still isn't an actual reason. You mention family values but I can't see what family values has to do with vaccinations.

Pinkyyy · 24/11/2018 14:52

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Weetabixandshreddies · 24/11/2018 14:53

Pinkyyy

People criticised your anti vax stance way before you said you were from the travelling community.

It's your choice not to vaccinate but then you need to appreciate that you and your children pose a risk to some of us.

JacquesHammer · 24/11/2018 14:53

Don’t make yourself more ridiculous Pinkyyy by growing erroneous accusations of racism around.

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