You can’t understand, unless you’re a mother

[PerfectionistProcrastinator]

I was having a conversation today with two colleagues about a lady that we know. She is currently going though a difficult time worrying about her young adult DS.

We were all in agreement that the lady in question must be going through a terrible time at the moment when one of them (a mother in her 40s) says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels until we are mothers ourselves. This is not the first time that this person has suggested that people without children could not fully relate to a situation.

AIBU to be irritated by this?

I am 34, my partner and I have been trying for a baby for a year since our miscarriage at 12 weeks. She knows that I would love nothing more than to be a mother myself.

Nannies in posh families sometimes bring up the kids

Yes, I know one. She doesn't have her own children yet many of the things she says and judgements she makes about the parents. Some of the 'parenting' choices she makes with regards to those children and the complete disregard she has for the parents wishes and terms of her contract are staggering sometimes.

Fortunately, her spouse divorced her earlier this year and I no longer have to listen to it.

I also know a teacher who was previously a nanny. She quite often recounted tales about the way she was left to parent the children and the lack of interest the parents had.

She also said that she had underestimated how different it would feel once she had her own children.

Probably not what you want to hear but I can see where your colleague is coming from. I really didn't have any idea how strong some of the feelings are about your kids until I actually had them myself. I mean I could still empathise if someone's child was ill or something had happened to them but I didn't fully understand how it feels until I had my own.

And any mother with kids who also takes other peoples kids away on residentials, or long periods of time, will tell you that it is more scary looking after someone elses kids than your own

Absolutely agree with this!!

But that's largely because you are only accountable for yourself when it is your children and precisely because they are not yours that you worry so much more.

That's not the same as being able to relate to parenting experiences though.

Everyone feels and sees things differently. No two people experience something the same. So I think it actually doesn't matter if you've had kids or not. People are quite capable of understanding the love they would feel for a child and how upset you'd feel seeing them go through difficult times. Empathy is a wonderful quality.

And any mother with kids who also takes other peoples kids away on residentials, or long periods of time, will tell you that it is more scary looking after someone elses kids than your own

What’s your point?

Yes it is “scarier” in the sense that we know our own children like the back of our own hands. With other children it’s nit like that so we can’t be so confident as to what they will and won’t do.

However if position of saving my child or the child I was looking after. I wouldn’t hesitate. Not for a nanosecond. My child.

Even though I agree with your colleague, I wouldn’t have said it to you. It does seem like a tactless and unnecessary comment.

I changed completely after having dd. Literally even I can’t believe who I am now some days.
I am super ashamed at some of the ways I thought pre dc now and often got told what your colleague said so I’m not sure because it’s only now I completely get what they meant.
Perhaps if they knew your situation however was better to stay quiet.

Not sure why someone would feel it necessary to make a comment like that. It sound a bit patronising tbh, rather like saying 'us parents all belong to some special exclusive club and you can't possibly understand until you join it. I'm the only one who knows enough to help our colleague'.

Not all parents feel the same way; some parents don't give a damn what happens to their children. And many non parents can empathise with parents going through a difficult time.

I know someone who is a specialist nurse in an oncology hospital department, she's never had cancer but I'm pretty sure that she has the capacity to empathise with and help the patients she deals with on a daily basis who do have cancer, and I mean in more than just a practical way.

None of us knows how we will change or feel when we become parents until it happens but that is true of any situation we go through in life and indeed, how we will feel as we go through the different life stages: at 30 you have no idea how you'll feel when you 70. Doesn't mean we can empathise.

Vvvvvv tactness and horrible to say. However she is right but no way should she say that. Keep fingers crossed for you op x

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels until we are mothers ourselves

So how much sympathy do we have for the perspectives:

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels unless we are men ourselves

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels unless we are gay ourselves

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels unless we are black ourselves

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels unless we are Muslim ourselves

says that our other colleague and myself could not possibly understand how it feels unless we are a marine biologist ourselves

...

It's all a bit pointless, really, isn't it? Saying crap like this? It's all about devaluing someone elses attempt at empathy OR claiming moral superiority by being part of the "club" and thumbing your nose going "ner ner ner ner". Somewhat similar to arguing over who the most humble person is.

*Doesn't mean we can't empathise, that should be.

She shouldnt have said it but ime its true. I relate to things like that a lot differently than i did pre ds.

I agree 100% with what Sethis said. The colleague who said it to you shows a remarkable lack of empathy, saying that to you.

I am super ashamed at some of the ways I thought pre dc now and often got told what your colleague said so I’m not sure because it’s only now I completely get what they meant.

I think what they meant is ridiculous. Not everyone who is a parent thinks or believes the same things.

It is crass and untrue to say it to someone.

YANBU, and everyone who says it’s true is missing the point.

OBVIOUSLY you cannot fully appreciate how a parent feels about their child when you are not a parent yourself. But it’s incredibly patronising to assume childless women don’t already know this and need to be told.

It’s particularly hurtful when you would love to be a mother but for whatever reason can’t be.

We can’t win: if we try and be supportive we are told we don’t get it, if we don’t say anything then we are the uncaring friend who has ditched them now they’ve got kids.

I think it’s a weird thing to just come out with tbh.

The only time I’ve heard someone say something like this is when someone comments that they know exactly what xyz is like because their niece/nephew/neighbours kid had it/did it.

OR even worse when someone insists they fully understand how it feels being a parent because of their dog/cat/fish.

So tbh op I’d say whether yabu depends on what you were saying.

Not being unreasonable at all. She sounds very rude. Especially if she knew about how much you wanted a baby.

Never really understood the whole, "You can't possibly understand unless you're a parent," stance. I could have a fair idea how a parent would feel and worry for a sick child before I had kids. I don't somehow feel like I've come into new emotional empathy now I'm a mother

Oh God yes. I have a friend who insists her pet is exactly, exactly like a child and goes on about them/ their issues/ lack of sleep all the time. Honestly she is far worse than the average newborn mummy.

I like her a lot and don’t judge as I know this pet is her ‘baby’ and she would love kids. But am biting my tongue hard at the moment!

YANBU, and everyone who says it’s true is missing the point.

OBVIOUSLY you cannot fully appreciate how a parent feels about their child when you are not a parent yourself. But it’s incredibly patronising to assume childless women don’t already know this and need to be told.

Literally no-one on this thread appears to have missed that point

Well, it's kind of true but I don't know if it's ever a useful thing to say. It would be nonsense to pretend that motherhood isn't a life-changing experience, but also dodgy to think that we all change in the same way. I'm gay, but I don't know if I've ever said to my straight friends that there's things they don't understand - I mean, there are, but equally I have straight friends with oodles of empathy and lesbian friends with none. Generally, I think it's a kind of 'get in your lane' thing to say which rarely helps move the conversation along.

Lots of things give change your perspective.

For instance if someone has a teenager who is anorexic, a parent of another anorexic child can empathise completely.
A parent can empathise from the point of view of imagining if it was their own child.
An aunt whose niece had anorexia can empathise from the point of view of having witnessed what it does to a family.
A teacher can empathise from having seen several of her pupils go through this.
Someone who suffered from anorexia themselves can empathise from that point of view.

All different perspectives, all equally valuable. So can some posters stop banging on as if their perspective as a mother is supreme. It isn't.

I'd be rolling my eyes at her on the sly.

It's an obnoxious and unnecessary thing to say. Whether or not it's true is impossible to know and completely irrelevant, imo. Why does it even matter? I'd feel like saying that, for that matter, no, I suppose no-one can really say what it's like for her but the woman herself, since no two people's experiences are ever exactly the same.

Also, do people honestly believe that someone who is a crappy mother (selfish, neglectful, abusive) is somehow magically more "in on the secret" of how it feels to love a child than someone who has never had children but is caring and empathetic?

It was a dismissive and stupid thing to say, it has the aim of shutting you up.

No one knows anyone else's lived life but some people share some aspects ttc, infertility, abortion, disabled children, elderly parents etc etc etc. Do people who don't have the particular experience you are discussing have no right to an opinion?

I'm not sure, think of "I'm not talking to white people about race anymore". As a white person I thought that sentiment was really valid.

But i think your colleague was being crap.

I think she was wrong.

Essentially she is saying that only parents of a child they gave birth to know what it's like. Does that include adoptive parents? Their child isn't biologically theirs, they didn't give birth. What about babies born from surrogates? They didn't give birth. What about women or men that can't have children? It's cruely excluding people who didn't give birth or can't have kids at all.

I am not a parent. I can fully understand what it's like to be a parent. That's why I'm not one yet, I'm not ready to be a parent. I can understand being protective over something, being selfless, being patient, being helpful, kind, supportive etc.

I am not a parent. I can fully understand what it's like to be a parent no, you can imagine but you don’t know.