Paying for DS holiday with ex??

[shamalawa]

A long, waffly one. Sorry.

have a (lovely lovely) DS who is 14. I left his dad when DS was 4, we were together too young, he was useless and lazy, fell out of love etc. We get on 'ok' but he's always been flakey with DS. Often cancels contact weekends, very rarely phones to chat to him etc. XP (LazyDad) has also never given any money toward DS - he has always had a very low paying job and as I earned well I didn't bother chasing him for anything. I think also out of misplaced guilt for leaving him I felt bad for even considering asking (foolish, yes but here we are)

Anyhoo, fast forward ten years and he's still as flaky as ever (has seen DS twice this year so far). I received a text from his DP, let's call her Kim.
I really really like Kim, she looks after DS v well when he visits - really makes an effort, she sends DS little gifts through the post etc. I've got a lot of time for her and we get on well.

Kim "hey Sha, I've been thinking about LazyDads bday next March and really want to surprise him and DS with a holiday to Barbados. LazyDad will get to see his family who live out there, DS will get to meet his cousins, aunties uncles etc"

Me: "wow that's a great idea, DS would love that - here are DS half term dates, if you could work it so he doesn't miss any school, or a day or 2 at most, that would be fab!"

Kim: "thanks soooo much, it will be a great surprise for them both. I feel really cheeky though, could you pay for DS flight?"

Argh!!!
I'm now married and a SAHM however my DH is a very high earner, which Kim is aware of. I feel guilty because we would be able to afford it without much thought BUT it's the principle isn't it?
ExDP hasn't paid a PENNY for DS and DH pays for literally everything as I'm now not working - including private school fees. The thing is, because it's Kim that's asking me I would feel really bad saying no.
DH said ultimately it's my decision BUT he thinks it's taking the piss a bit.

I also don't know if Kim is aware of the extent to which LazyDad pays NOTHING it's very possible he tells her he does?
Kim has only recently started back at work so I know she hasn't got much spare cash and if we don't cough up for DS it's likely the trip won't go ahead (or maybe they just won't take DS?). She has said she will cover accommodation, food and spending money.
I know DS would enjoy the trip and love meeting his cousins and experiencing the culture from that side of his family (because God knows his dad doesn't provide anything in terms of this...!)

But WIBU to say no???

If you worked, you'd have your own money to pay for it. I think the problem here, is that you'd have to ask your DH for the money.

Also, why haven't you gone after Lazydad for support, via the CMS? You really should you know. It's not fair just relying on your DH.

No, perhaps at a push I would offer to pay half. If this were me Kim would know about the fact her DP doesn't pay a penny towards his son.

Just out of curiosity - how long has Kim been with your XP?

Probably around 5yrs?

Say no.

So she can be under no illusions then...

Sod that.

It was her idea so she should pay.

Ooh tough one. Op I can see why you are conflicted. I think I'd lean towards no though. He doesn't seem stable enough to be in charge of a teenager in a country he's never to for the start.

I also think she really should have mentioned the money form the first text, I feel like she set you up a bit there.

Thirdly while I'm glad she is kind to your son, she is supporting feckless twat to basically continue on as a dead beat dad. So she's nice, but not full on lovely. You've probably got a very low bar after dealing with the ex for so long!

If pay but only because I'd want DS to enjoy his time. They are CF and I'd make it clear that it's a one off. Rise above it

I'm interested to know how your DS gets on in general with his dad? Do they have a good relationship? You say he's only seen his DS twice this year, often cancels contact weekends, and doesn't phone him. On that basis would your DS want to spend a week or two in his dad's company?

I also wonder how on earth Kim is affording flights for herself and LazyDad if they'll be going during school holidays and she's only just started back at work. Flights to Barbados certainly aren't cheap!

I'm in agreement with the posters suggesting you tell Kim that he doesn't pay maintenance. But I'm also pretty petty.

Something along the lines of 'I'd have to ask dh because, as you know, LD has never contributed financially and I'm not working so dh already pays for everything for ds. I'll check with him and see what he says but he may think this is just a step too far.'

Then use that time to ask ds if he'd even want to go. If he did, the flights could maybe be a Christmas/birthday present.

I would also say to her, "Kim, I'd love to and I am so happy you offered to bring DS but LazyEx has literally not paid one red cent since we separated so I'm just can't justify also spending for this".

This way she knows the truth whatever. I'm hoping she's not actually using to supplement the holiday as they've never taken Ds before.

Could you maybe take Ds and Dh together one day to meet his family?

Why were you quick to believe your ex doesn't know?
Scam?

She's definitely a cf. Five years and no word of maintenance for his son. She's just as bad if she thinks that normal.

“Dear Kim,

If i was working I would probably consider paying only because I want DS to meet his cousins, but I feel it’s unfair to expect my DH to pay for this while he is funding DS schooling and everything else single handedly. I don’t want him to feel taken advantage of, especially as you are aware that LazyDad hasn’t put effort with DS much , so it will have to be a no”

I agree with pp that you should ask for it to be deducted from the maintenance payments. Or you could reply ‘yes that is a cheeky request and although it sounds like a lovely trip, I’m not prepared to pay for DS flight’.

It really isn’t fair to expect your DH to pay for this trip when he does so much else for your son. He sounds like an amazing stepdad!

Kim must know how little Lazydad sees your DS, and she probably does know he doesnt pay a penny so are you 100% sure this is a surprise for Lazydad or is that just a way to persuade you to chip in for their holiday so that they can go long haul and he can look good in the family?

I have been through something very similar, DD (12) has a South African dad and he moved back there when I was 8 months pregnant - told me he was visiting a sick nan and never came back!

We were not living with each other but had been in a relationship for a year and even though DD was not planned I did not get the impression from him that he was upset/not ready for fatherhood.

I got married when DD was 3 and have 2 DS (7 & 5) - DH and I work full time but not huge earners. We budget well so manage one UK based holiday a year - usually camping, centre parcs etc.

Anyway when DD was 8 he turned up on my mum's door step with his DW and 3 year old DS begging for a chance to see his daughter. I agreed and after slow progression (at my request) 2 years later they had a beautiful bond and he saw he regularly.

I also became very good friends with his DW and she has been amazing to our DD.

8 months ago due to his DW mother falling ill they decided to move back to SA and it broke my DD heart. They facetime daily and she is still maintaining a relationship with them but it is obviously hard.

2 weeks ago the DW mentioned how they would love her to come to them for Christmas. They seemed to have planned it all very well and as my EX sister would be travelling my DD (who she is close with) could travel with her.

Now - just to set the scene here...I am not big on Christmas, DD loves it so I make an effort but the thought of not having to go all out is very appealing. Also I know that DD would have an amazing time and this is a brilliant opportunity for her.

So I said Yes. was just about to tell DD when this text came through...

"Amazing, DH will be so happy and surprised when she turns up. As she is under 17 can you get Auntie to book flights and just pay her the money directly for DD"

Taken back by this I messaged:

"just to clarify are you expecting me to pay for flights here?"

Her response:

"Of course, it would be too much for us".

Now as in the case of the OP he has NEVER paid me a penny, I never asked for anything as I thought it was useless with him being in SA. So here was my response!

"Hi, sorry it has taken me a while to respond. I was slightly shocked at your request for me to pay for the flights. I have been in touch with Auntie and she told me that for that time of year I would be looking at around £900, maybe more and I am afraid this is just not feasible.
You may or may not be aware that for the whole 12 years of her life your DH has never paid a penny towards her upbringing. I have never asked due to him being in SA for the first 8 years of her life and then it never felt right to ask when he returned. I completely understand you miss DD and you want to spend time with her, and I truly appreciate that you love her like your own. But even on a full time salary I could only afford a family holiday to Centre Parcs this year so finding up to £1000 for a holiday for DD when my other DC won't get the same is just not possible for us. Having discussed with my DH I am happy to contribute £250 towards the flights as we can then do something with the boys. Hope you can appreciate the position we are in."

As of yet I have had no response....

I'm interested to know how your DS gets on in general with his dad? Do they have a good relationship? You say he's only seen his DS twice this year, often cancels contact weekends, and doesn't phone him. On that basis would your DS want to spend a week or two in his dad's company?

Agree! Especially with him playing the doting father to the family. It might cause real issues.

Arggh

If you do decide to pay towards this trip for your DS then would it be possible to say you will give Kim/LD/DS the money when they go or just before they go? That way if Kim/LD ask for more you can just say no?
You could ask that she pays for flights and you will give money to cover other expenses instead? Or you will match what she/LD puts towards the holiday?

But I do think that you need to tell your DS what is going on. It would be horrible if they tell him he could have gone with them but you wouldn't let him or similar. He needs to be informed, even if it's just to say that you don't think it's a good idea and so will have to say no at this point, but maybe when he's older etc.

"Amazing, DH will be so happy and surprised when she turns up. As she is under 17 can you get Auntie to book flights and just pay her the money directly for DD"

To me, these facilitating women know fine well what they're doing and they're practising emotional manipulation on other women to make up for their partner's deficits. They're also giving themselves an out to offload responsibility.

It's telling that they make the approach as being better manipulators than the partners.

It's not acceptable.

I'd be replying exactly what @astoundedgoat said.
I'd also be concerned that at some point Kim might get very very fed up with lazy dad, break up with him, then lazy dad will probably be too lazy to take DS on holiday you've paid for.... OR he will ask you for accommodation costs and spending money and your DS will know by that point.

I don't think this is fair on your DH

I'd say no based on how flaky his dad has been generally, regardless of how nice Kim is.

If I wanted to say yes I would say as part of the yes 'I think you should know that XP has never paid any maintenance towards his son at all. If I pay for these flights we won't be paying any further contributions to the trip - I would expect XP to look after his son.'

Also...okay I'm over invested now...would they expect you to just send them the cash for the flights?

Can you imagine....

I vote Kim up for cf of the day...