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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
Steakandkidney · 22/11/2018 17:43

With respect, OP, you are defensive as fuck and I understand it, but it will go completely against you. You need to drop the attitude, drop the 'we aren't a social services family' and the anger towards 111.
All of this will raise concerns that you can't comply or engage with services.
Intoxicated means influenced by drugs or alcohol, prescription or otherwise, in a way you can't function normally. Antihistamines cause that. She doesn't know that.
And you did refuse an ambulance, on paper, for a baby who you said you didn't know was grunting or not, who couldn't breathe, and who had a history of breathlessness.
That is a red flag.
It has nothing to do with the 111 handler being in a strop.
You seriously need to change your attitude before the visit. Accept what they have said-the risk here is that you have neglected your child by failing to take medical advice. They are MUCH stricter with babies under one than they would be a toddler or school age child because they deteriorate so quickly. It could have been sepsis as far as they know, because breathlessness is a sign. So is grunting.
You then said, nah I don't want an ambulance, I'll get a taxi up later if it gets worse cos my husband is knocked out with medication and can't drive as he's drowsy.
I'm not getting at you but I'm giving you a professional heads up, can you not see what I'm saying? Calm down or it will raise alarm bells.

CoperCabana · 22/11/2018 17:44

Great advice from Cheshire.

Perpetuallytiredzzz · 22/11/2018 17:46

I haven’t read all the comments but just wanted to clarify that, in our area and I assume many others, the out of hours GP number is 111- you have to go through them first and then a clinician calls back and then if they think you need it you are allocated an out of hours appointment. There is also no walk in centre so if the GP is closed that or straight to a and e is your only option. I definitely think you will be able to make a complaint about the service through PALS but also I would echo what others say about complying with SS for their checks but I would also say you can be assertive and challenge politely if you disagree with anything said or written x

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:48

There are so many visceral responses to my post here. I'm livid at the SS referral being made in the manner in which it was made. My next door neighbour would be fully justified reporting me because she probably hears a crying baby most of the time- I get that. But for someone within a professional service to completely ignore what I was saying (to go to A&E NOW and not later- despite her own assessment telling her baby wasn't in immediate danger), ask me to get my husband to drive (whilst drowsy) is what is out of order. She could've said the same thing in a different way and perhaps I would've responded differently. She was vindictive.

OP posts:
IAteMyCrumpetIAteItAllUp · 22/11/2018 17:49

My baby was admitted to hospital through A&E twice this summer, and had a further visit where they treated him in A&E and then let him go home. I was conscious that this might lead to a SS referral (I once read that repeated A&E trips was a trigger for a referral). I was fine with that, and if SS had called I would have been as cooperative a possible. I absolutely would not have spoken to them as OP’s husband did. Of course SS can’t just take a parent’s word that a referral was malicious or unnecessary without doing their own investigation - they’d be letting down a lot of vulnerable children if they did.

OP, tbh it does sound like you mainly resent the perceived social stigma of being referred to SS. Not sure that a complaint will help you much with that.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:52

I didn't refuse an ambulance @Steakandkidney - she didn't offer one and at this point I knew (by her telling me) that baby wasn't deemed to be at risk so I didn't insist on one. The attitude is coming from being angry and misunderstood. There are some evil people out there mistreating children and these b*stards come after me. I stand by this being a malicious referral and will be dealing with it as such.

OP posts:
Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:52

OP, they will make all sorts of assumptions depending on how you deal with them. 'Mother tearful', 'Mother not coping'. 'Mother unwilling to take advice' and on and fucking on it goes.
You need to calm the fuck down, take deep breaths, and pretend you're back at work in an interview or something.
Once they have been alerted to your existence, they're like rabid dogs in my experience.
So you need to be clever about this. And then you won't be a SS family anymore!

FangTasticFeast · 22/11/2018 17:55

Well 3 A&E visits in less than 6 months would trigger a phone call from ss

You repeatedly phone 111 and then couldn’t tell them if the baby was struggling to breath or not and refused to take the baby to A&E so what do you expect ?

I’m not convinced numerous hcps were unprofessional enough to swear about a 111 worker in front of you either

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:55

I'm fuming atm which is why my responses probably sound so aggressive- and the more I think about what was said and how she said it, the more p*ssed off I'm getting! I'm not going to not comply with SS. They're more than welcome to come over, I've got nothing to hide.

OP posts:
CoperCabana · 22/11/2018 17:55

How is your little boy now OP?

I would second the snot sucker, as revolting as it sounds and also a humidifier. I had a cougher and a snorter so I do feel your pain.

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:56

You've got this OP.
I know PND might be starting to kick in, so for that you need to see your GP. But believe me, these people will not go away until you do what they tell you to do (and try to look happy about it).

usernameusername01 · 22/11/2018 17:56

I haven't read the whole thread, so sorry if I repeat anything already said.

I think you're slightly unreasonable to keep ringing 111 when baby has a cold (pp have said GP/Pharmacist etc).

My baby was diagnosed with silent reflux and a dairy allergy slightly younger than yours. So I do understand how scary it is and there were definitely times that she looked like she couldn't breathe and was choking.

The things I did was buy snufflebabe and pop on baby's feet, calpol plug in (might be from 3 months though), tilt whatever baby is sleeping in (mine was in a Moses basket so I put books under the feet at one end), see the GP and ask for some medication for the reflux.

I've only ever had a wonderful experience with 111 and have never been sent to A&E. The only time we were sent to the hospital was via the GP. I really don't want this thread to put anyone off, you can always wait for a GP to phone you back which is helpful if you don't want to go the hospital.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:57

And yes, from where I'm from and how I've been brought up, there is masssssssssiiiivvvvve stigma attached to SS involvement.

OP posts:
Steakandkidney · 22/11/2018 17:57

Ah ok re ambulance. That's good.
Everybody feels like you. Some people don't even realise they're hurting their kids (not that you are). Everybody sees SS as 'bastards who should focus on real abusers'. The thing is, there is no blueprint of who an abuser is.
The best way to approach it is to put a business head on.
Make sure your red book is there, and any notes you have.
Make notes if you need to, a kind of, this is how I met my baby's needs.
What may come up is the number of times you have presented to services-don't let this put you off. But they do have to check his records, because sometimes people harm their kids, and still take them to hospital. You will be fine, because you haven't. They know what they're looking for.
Have your home clean, but not perfect. Demonstrate you have support. Tell her you'd like the HV to come round more to help you with the baby's cold and sleep. Basically, you want as much help as you can. Then they are less likely to want to stay involved. Over and over, make it known you met his needs, you took him up when asked, and be almost submissive. This too will pass.

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:57

You've got this. I think you've got this. Do you think you've got this?

Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 17:58

I am so angry at your demonisation of "SS families" and your insistence that you aren't one.

Abuse doesn't just happen in working class poor families you know.

Excited101 · 22/11/2018 17:59

YANBU OP. Go back to your children’s centre, no one will think anything of anything and you’ll feel a lot more ‘over it’ more quickly if you move past it. Anyone having a go about anything you’ve said needs to take a good long look at themselves, you’ve said nothing wrong, we ALL know what you meant with some of your phrasing. People are just being picky. Flowers

lyndar · 22/11/2018 18:00

@discopisco we are not one of those because we are professionals -hahaha
You have openly admitted you are exhausted so take the support social services offer you
Why do you think social services get involved ❓
They are not just there to take children away from neglectful parents

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 18:01

lyndar. I don't think that is helping.

lyndar · 22/11/2018 18:03

@Diddlysquats I couldn't give a diddly squat
She is airing her annoyance and so am I

discopisco · 22/11/2018 18:03

We have a humidifier, snufflebabe drops, the snufflebabe aspirator, copious amounts of saline drops, a Chico next to me cot that tilts (which he refuses to sleep in), I've taken him into the bathroom and let the steam from a hot shower hopefully ease his stuffy nose. I've tried baby massage. The only thing I haven't done is take him for regular walks as I'm scared he'll catch something on top of what he already has. I don't think I have PND (yet) as I'm not all doom and gloom (despite what my replies on this thread might sound like!)- I'm really upset at the SS referral and how it's possibly clouded everyone at the Ccs views about me. I don't want to watched like a hawk and be looked upon with suspicion.

OP posts:
lyndar · 22/11/2018 18:03

And social services will help her

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 18:04

OP, it's quite possible you already have PND. Do you have a good relationship with your GP? Bare in mind, SS will request information from your GP. You try to do everything right and you're reported to SS ffs. It's how it works. So you need to play the game if you want them out of your life.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 18:06

@lyndar- I am open to seeking support when I deem it necessary and other than with his sleep (which we were going to do privately anyway) I don't feel I do . I don't want it thrust upon me like it has.

OP posts:
danni0509 · 22/11/2018 18:07

@Diddlysquats Wish there was a like button for this.

Welcome to the world of parenting OP where you can't do right for doing wrong.