Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
reallyanotherone · 22/11/2018 17:19

OP don't cry when SS do visit. Put your work hat on and see this as a sort of job interview. Or they'll be all over you like flies on a hot shite. 'Mother not coping'

Please don’t pretend to be ok. They are there to help. If you aren’t coping, ask for help now. They will help and check in on you so make sure no PND etc.

If you struggle on pretending everything is ok because youre “not an ss family” you could end up in 6 months even more sleep deprived and in the grip of PND.

Take all the help offered. Tbh you sound like you need it. It is not normal for an 11wk old baby to have so many 111/a&e visits over a cold.

Darkstar4855 · 22/11/2018 17:21

I would make a written complaint to whatever the complaints address is for your local 111 service. Someone senior should review the transcript and get back to you to discuss your concerns.

As far as the SS referral goes try not to worry too much. These days so much more gets referred to SS/safeguarding because of cases in the past where concerns have been missed and children have been harmed or died as a result. They tend to be overcautious now and rightly so.

When I worked in A&E we had to let the safeguarding team know about any parent who attended with an ill or injured child but left without being seen. A lot of the time we thought this was unnecessary but it had to be done. I wouldn’t be surprised if 111 have a similar policy about people not going to A&E with a child when advised to do so. It’s not a reflection on anyone’s parenting ability, it’s just the way things are these days.

CoperCabana · 22/11/2018 17:23

All of us on this thread who have been parents have been first time parents at some point. It is terrifying. However you do seem over anxious and aggressive. Please calm down and go and ask for some support. This thread is not doing you any good.

Micah · 22/11/2018 17:24

When i worked in a&e any child under 2 with more than 3 a&e attendances was automatically referred to ss

friendlyflicka · 22/11/2018 17:26

In my experience, you can be as anti-authority and independent as you wish with any other organisation, but if you are uncooperative with Social Services, however justified you are in deeming their intervention unnecessary, it will extend the length of your relationship with them.

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:27

reallyanotherone It's the added stress of SS involvement which is precipitating the OP into possible PND. They are not the angelic helpful service that you seem to think they are. They have powers similar to police, and involvement from then can cause all sorts of problems where none existed previously.
The OP can seek private assistance if needs be. She does not need a heavy handed organisation stressing her out.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:28

For those of you saying I'm using my GP/A&E excessively- you've either not got children/have children who have never been poorly/have fantastic sources of support that help and reassure you when needed/you're brilliant, competent parents. Good for you. For me; it's taken 4 visits in 11 weeks for the GP to change their mind from thinking the baby is suffering from colic (unexplained crying) to most recently acknowledging that it might be silent reflux (not only is it distressing at this moment in time for baby but left untreated, it can lead to further complications later on) and for them to refer baby to a Paediatrician for the recurrent colds. So do I regret seeing my GP as much i have done- not one jot. As for the A&E visits, I wasn't going to risk anything at 9 days old with a baby born during cough/flu season. The second A&E visit was forced upon me by 111 (they called the ambulance) as was the third one- they reported me to SS. I really wish people would rtft. It's exhausting covering the same things over and over again.

And for those of you telling me I need help- maybe I do and there have been some lovely posts here with brilliant advice which I've already actioned, eg. Booking myself on a Paediatric First Aid course, downloading the GP on call app. Others such a requesting a call transcript I'll do tomorrow.

I stand by my version- which I've qualified in a pp- of what a SS family is.

OP posts:
Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:29

The OP doesn't seem aggressive to me. She seemed quite coherent in her OP and in the few responses since.

AdaColeman · 22/11/2018 17:32

Just as an aside, your baby may have silent reflux, causing him to sleep badly, be snuffly etc.

Bowlofbabelfish · 22/11/2018 17:32

Please people - don’t avoid using services, especially for small babies. we had the most awful dash to A and E for what started as ‘just a cold’ and very rapidly went downhill and ended up with me running into emergency with the suddenly (shockingly suddenly) Sick child and being seen immediately (as in, straight into a bay and a dozen staff there, thank god.)

Under 12 weeks the advice errs on the side of caution for good reason.

The old ‘call for advice’ System was good - 111 is useless. You will gain more confidence as you get more parenting experience but I can’t flog you for erring on the side of caution here.

Do you have a snot sucker? They are bloody brilliant, go buy one (nosfrida for example) and saline drops. A humidifier is helpful if the air is dry and cold.

What can you do? You can engage with SS and don’t be aggressive with them. There’s no such thing as ‘an SS family’ - the need for support crosses social divides.

Don’t underestimate how hard lack of sleep is. I’m on my second non sleeper and it’s just brutal. Try to sleep in shifts if it helps - I found that if I had one or two 3 hour blocks of sleep a week I was OK but below that I began to unravel. How about on a weekend you each have one morning in bed while thebother takes the baby? We used to do that (ds1 woke hourly for a very, very long time...)

iluvsummer · 22/11/2018 17:33

Have you asked them about dairy allergy? Your baby sounds exactly like mine was and at 6 weeks the doctor put her onto neocate and her symptoms stopped within 48 hours and she was a different child. We were also in the doctors weekly and had to have visits to out of hours as she was permanently congested and were fobbed off with it being a virus until they tried her on this milk.

Sugarhunnyicedtea · 22/11/2018 17:33

I do have children, who have been extremely unwell and hospitalised. My health visitor diagnosed silent reflux and colic when my son was 6 weeks old, it was hell. I also had severe PND.

I stand by the fact you are using 111 too often if you're not going to take their advice.
I find people are much more helpful if you're not so judgemental.

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:34

OP, you need to leave aside your annoyance with 111 when SS visit. I presume they haven't visited yet? You really really really need to just dance to their tune. Otherwise you're going to have months of them all over your shit.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:34

I didn't refuse to take baby to the hospital- I refused to take him immediately based on the fact that the 111 assessment said he wasn't in any danger! I said if that was the case, then I'd monitor him and should the situation change in the next couple of seconds/minutes/hours, I'd taken him down there like a shot. The 111 person was livid I wasn't taking him there and then. She even said 'I repeat, hang up the phone and take him NOW!!!'

OP posts:
Pebblesandfriends · 22/11/2018 17:35

111 almost always tell you to go to A and E if it's a baby. I would go to local walk in if worried in future or phone your health visitor. I think the power just goes to some people's heads. I put a complaint in about one of the midwives at hospital who threatened to report me to social services for asking to discharge myself and my baby when there was no reason for us to be kept in and I had no support in hospital ( grumpy midwife who wouldn't help the night before when I did need it when hooked up to an iv) and loads at home ( partner and health visitor mother). I got an unreserved apology but it still made me angry that it was a 'do exactly as I say without question or I'll report you'.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:35

DH wasn't intoxicated- he's taken medication for flu and an antihistamine which made him drowsy.

OP posts:
Tatgalore · 22/11/2018 17:35

I presume what she means by, not a SS family, is that they're not neglectful parents and that they are meeting their babies needs so do not need SS involvement.

Op as for using the NHS too much, when you've got a newborn baby, especially your first, it can be incredibly difficult to call what's normal and what's not. Often we air on the side of caution.

Unfortunately op healthcare professionals are not perfect and some are downright stupid.

I've literally never had a good experience with 111, you can't make a diagnosis over the phone, they fobbed me off when my ds1 was severely dehydrated and he ended up hospitalised, thank fuck I used my instincts and took him to AandE.

As for the SS, I'd carry on engaging with them and your local children's centre. This will keep SS off your back.

BlackeyedGruesome · 22/11/2018 17:36

we've had conversations with the triage nurse, (once she had retrieved her eyes as they had rolled so far round once hearing we were sent by 111) where she has said, I can't tell you to leave....... (long pause) it will be a long wait as we prioritise poorly children.....

we took the hint and left and were back out of the carpark even before the parking charges kicked in.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 17:37

Our local walk in operates from 8am-8pm. Anyone needing any medical assistance after this for whatever ailments- minor or serious- would have to go to A&E. We don't have a local GP out of hours service- we have to go through 111 which is why I called them.

OP posts:
Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 17:38

There's no such thing as an SS family. Stop being so blooming judgy. I was one. Because my DD was bullied so much she tried to commit suicide multiple times and if it hadn't been for the intervention of SS we wouldn't have got support she needed. So please, don't say that anymore.

Why are you calling 111 all the time and not using your GP out of hours number? 111 is one step down from 999 and a baby with a cold doesn't need a 111 call. Time to get sensible, and stop calling 111 and start using NHS services appropriately.

You are rocking up to A&E and phoning inappropriate numbers. I've had a young baby who needed attention out of hours but a flipping cold and needing saline drops isn't it. Buy a sucker and keep some drops in the house.

Seriously you have behaved appallingly and I hope you realise that. The call handler was doing their job. You were describing a child in need of immediate attention and you weren't taking appropriate action to take that child to the hospital. If you thought you'd take the baby to the hospital if he got any worse, you didn't need to ring 111. You could have just monitored the baby at home and not tied up essential services for someone who really needed them.

It all smacks a bit of the boy who cried wolf.

Meralia · 22/11/2018 17:38

Hope it all works out OP. I feel you’re getting a really unfair bashing here.

My youngest is 17 months, I’ve phoned 111 a couple of times and been to the doctors several times, my son was sent straight to the hospital from the doctors as he had a severe cold, bubbly breathing and the skin under his ribs was sucking in, another time we went to A and E on the advice of 111 due to a really high temp and a rash in the nappy area (went on to be hand, foot and mouth).

If you’re worried then phoning 111 is ok, it doesn’t matter how many times you call. As you say some babies develop really serious infections so why take the chance? Same goes for DRs appointments.

There’s nothing wrong with being vigilant regarding your babies health. I hope the SS referral works out and your DS recovers soon. Congratulations by the way.

CheshireChat · 22/11/2018 17:39

discopisco I hope everything gets sorted asap, make sure you keep logs of everything and get transcripts and even record stuff so then you're covered.

However, get a humidifier of Amazon or similar and add a few drops of essential peppermint or eucalyptus oil. Worked wonders for DS alongside raising his mattress a tiny bit with a towel under it.

BobbleHat102 · 22/11/2018 17:39

@discopisco yes it is important to get out. Totally understand how you feel about the CC.

Personally I have not yet engaged with any centres or groups, not because of any specific reason... I'm just a little bit wary of new people. I've found fresh air and stomping about has worked well for me while I summon the courage to face other humans.

Do you have any massive hills nearby? I've found stomping and pushing the buggy up the hill as fast as I can to be a fantastic stress reliever!

Diddlysquats · 22/11/2018 17:40

Welcome to the world of parenting OP where you can't do right for doing wrong.

CheshireChat · 22/11/2018 17:42

And I also very nearly called 999 for friggin croup of all things- I'd never heard of it until then and like fuck did my kid sound like a seal, he sounded like my mum when she was having a serious asthma attack!

Took him to OOH in the end and he wasn't even wheezing anymore as the cold air had helped, the dr thought it was funny and said it's actually a great way to alleviate symptoms.

Swipe left for the next trending thread