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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
DevonshireCreamTea · 22/11/2018 19:14

I'm sorry OP but you are repeatedly using a&e and 111 for a cold
What if there was neglect toward a child whose parents had repeatedly accessed medical care and nothing was done.

Ollivander84 · 22/11/2018 19:14

Sometimes you don't know though. I rang 111 and ended up at the OOH GP. Drove myself in and was coughing a lot in the waiting area. Doctor comes into waiting area and asks someone to bring a nebuliser and oxygen. I wonder who that's for, I thought
Me ConfusedBlush as I had pneumonia. 8 nebulisers over the weekend, antibiotics and steroids and I felt more human

And I went to a&e FOUR times in 6 weeks for back pain. It was the right thing to do but if you just think back pain, and 4 times in six weeks, it would seem ridiculous

sar302 · 22/11/2018 19:15

If it's any consolation OP, I turned up to urgent care thinking my baby was having a reaction to his antibiotics, and it was actually hand foot and mouth. So what I actually did was take an infectious baby into a room of sick people 🙄
Then when he had an allergic response to egg for the first time, we panicked and drove him to a&e, only to get gently told off for not calling an ambulance.
Oh, and we took him to another a&e after a very minor cAr nudge - not even a crash - that he didn't even wake up through, because he was only 7 weeks old and I was quite hysterical that he might die. He was fine.

Having a tiny baby for the first time makes you question everything and not always make the rational decisions you would make for yourself. You called 111, they are supposed to direct you to appropriate services. As you get to know your baby a bit more, you'll be able to make decisions more confidently. Hang in there, it does get easier. Just don't fight the professionals,

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 19:17

Posted to soon. Those criticising the OP for calling 111 to many times for a cold, it’s supposed to be a non emergency medical help line. She hasn’t done anything wrong and I’d be livid if I’d received this type of treatment.

wineytimey · 22/11/2018 19:22

Doctor here 👋

I am totally unable to make an assessment of my own daughter and so have used nhs111 in the past (and always had ok experiences) but have also taken my baby to a&e with things they have said are not serious enough.

You do sound like you have some health anxiety since your baby and I think doing a first aid course would be a good idea, BUT I would ignore all the advice of people saying you are going to a&e too much. We would rather see babies too early than too late. They are too precious to risk.

Innocentconglomeration · 22/11/2018 19:22

Do you realise that what you are expecting SS to do is close a case because your husband told them to?

Don't you understand why they can't do that?

Move2WY · 22/11/2018 19:23

I think it’s really important that yourewuest a copy kf the 111 call you nade to support your complaint.

According to the new GDPR if you request the transcript of thecall they must supply it to you within 30 days. I would do that.

Wasywasydoodah · 22/11/2018 19:24

In this area you can cal out of hours GPs where an actual Doctor will talk to you on the phone and book you an appointment at a 24 hour GP clinic. It’s far far better than 111 which I called once, but never again. Maybe see if there’s something like that? I also agree you should make an appointment to see your own GP about the constant cold.

ChiaraRimini · 22/11/2018 19:26

OP you seem furious because you think you have been judged as an "SS family". Get over yourself. SS don't have time to waste persecuting parents for fun. Better that they get referrals that don't need further action when checked up on than children in need are missed.

Tessliketrees · 22/11/2018 19:29

I think we can all agree it's about time 111 got some screening questions to ensure only "SS families" are safeguarded.

Suggestions-
"Do you live in social housing?"
Spelling quinoa and asking for pronunciation.
"Waitrose or Morrisons?"

That way they can correctly target poor people instead of victimising professionals.

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 19:31

Ye gods there’s some idiot responses on this thread. Ignore them OP.

ILovePierceBrosnan · 22/11/2018 19:31

It’s ironic that you’ve been referred to SS for not taking your baby to A&E and yet people are still chiding you for using A&E!

OP this all sounds really frustrating for you but I second (third, fourth fifth...) the advice to work with SS. They have a responsibility to investfollowing a referral. They are so overworked that they will quickly leave you alone if you don’t try to stop them (that would just raise alarm bells)

I think the call handler was abusing her power because she was in a bad mood! I’ve also experienced this when calling with a collapsed elderly member of the public. The rigid following of a script whilst I was trying to care for someone who was bleeding from a head wound and possibly having a stroke. I made a complaint about her attitude.

In my experience 111 refers people inappropriately to A&E far too frequently.

I was reported as a safeguarding matter because I cried down the phone to a breast feeding counsellor. She told me that I should get my (feeding every 40 minutes) baby to drink from a saucer of expressed milk...

I hope you have an easier time of it soon.

Steakandkidney · 22/11/2018 19:34

@Ali1cedowntherabbithole
They don't have resources to look into every nook and cranny of your life
They can, and do, if necessary.
Unless there are very serious red flags they won't be looking at your police record or your medical records. Please ignore the poster who is suggesting this
Please don't. After a safeguarding referral SS are concerned of significant harm to a child either which has happened already, or may still happen in the future. This prompts an initial assessment which can either be done by phone or in person. They aren't always clear about what assessment is what.
These are standard protocols if a core assessment is done following the initial assessment. Everybody has them, it's standard procedure.
What is not clear is if OP has had the initial assessment by phone and SS are coming to do the core assessment.
Any safeguarding referral means a professional, somewhere, is very concerned about your child. That in itself is the serious red flag you are talking about. They don't need permission, or to have seen serious harm come to a child to do this. They do it in part to ensure your child's safety, but in part due to a back covering as well. All medical and social professionals have to practice defensively and cover themselves. It would be career suicide for a child to be harmed and not having flagged it. Then you would get all the 'why don't they see the really abused children' posters complaining. How can they know who's at risk, if they don't do risk assessments?
I presumed they are because she said they have to do loads of other stuff before 'they can get rid of them'.
Because of this I have detailed the assessment so OP can have an idea of what may be to come next.

poppyseedbloomers · 22/11/2018 19:34

This post isn't about whether you should take a baby with a cold to A&E. It's about the OP not happy with the SS referral. Because that's not who she is. She's pissed off because she thinks she's been unfairly referred. Not treated as she would like to be treated. Her 'sort' are not involved with SS. She's educated. Why wouldn't she be able to look after her child properly?

lyndar · 22/11/2018 19:35

@Imissgmichael it's funny people tell others to ignore advice on here or points of view
How about she takes on board ALL advice and weighs them all up to come to a conclusion
Otherwise she is not going to learn anything

Life0fBrian · 22/11/2018 19:35

I rung 111 last year and they sent an ambulance who asked us why we had rung them. Explained we hadn’t and 111 had. They were rolling their eyes but we still had to go to A&E. My situation ended up being different though as it was originally bronchiolitis ( which I found out after spending all night waiting around in a basically empty A&E). Bronchiolotis is meant to clear on its own, but within a few days it was much worse and we ended up having a Hospital stay it developed pneumonia.

It sounds like a horrible situation OP and you should 1000% complain your arse off about this. Hopefully a visit from a SW will quickly show it’s all a misunderstanding.

Eastie77 · 22/11/2018 19:36

Posters advising the OP to trust her instincts and ask "is my baby really ill?" seem to miss the point that when you are a first time parent you don't really have any instincts to trust. It is all new to you. If a baby has a cold and seems to be struggling to breathe it can cause panic and terror if you haven't witnessed it before. I'm rolling my eyes at the experts on the thread who smugly proclaim that they always knew better than to bother with A&E when their baby 'only' had a cold. Good for you.

OP, sorry to hear about your experience and it sounds horrendous. I gave up on 111 when I called 6 weeks postpartum and the operator revealed he didn't know what a c-section was.

I'm also baffled at the '3 visits to A&E and SS are notified' rule in some parts of the country. Surely it depends on why the baby has been taken in? Some newborns are quite sickly. For the record I rushed baby DD to A&E when she fell out of a rocker and banged her head, took her the GP when she vomited and another time to the emergency GP when I returned from a 2 day trip away and she went on a 'breast strike' and refused to feed. This all happened within a 4 week period. I wouldn't do the same with my second DC but as a first time mum I simply didn't know what else to do.

Steakandkidney · 22/11/2018 19:37

It’s ironic that you’ve been referred to SS for not taking your baby to A&E and yet people are still chiding you for using A&E
Both Victoria Climbie and Baby P had numerous hospital visits prior to their deaths. A and E attendance alone doesn't mean good parenting. In the case of mothers who make their babies ill, as in the case of Munchausens by proxy, they attend A and E plenty.
In this sense OP you have nothing to worry about. But you do need to comply with them.

Diamondsandstones · 22/11/2018 19:37

Firstly as someone who grew up with parents who fostered we had plenty of kids who were from feckless professionals. There's no such thing as a social services family. Plenty of parents living in poverty do an amazing job.

Other than that in our area the health visitors rings or visits after a small baby has been to A and E.
If a baby with no major issues had been contacted so many times in such a short period it would have raised flags.

That said social services will contact you or visit and check everything is okay. The worst thing you can do is not continue at your classes at the children's centre. That will be a huge flag if you stop engaging .

Most staff at the children's centre will not know and they definitely won't judge. Ours had families who had heavhb involvement and were desperate to help families who wanted help.

AnoukSpirit · 22/11/2018 19:40

OP, you're allowed to be angry and upset at being treated badly, and at the difficult circumstances you're having to deal with.

I'd be shocked if you weren't upset and angry.

If things aren't right, you keep seeking healthcare advice until they are sorted. There seem to be quite a lot of posts here from people who've had the dumb luck to never have anything truly bad happen to them or to be failed by a healthcare system.

Some people have the dumb luck to never need to go to A&E, or to only ever go there once. Some people are unfortunate enough to have to return there multiple times. It doesn't make the first set of people virtuous, nor the second set wasters-of-resources - it's just part of the random, unpredictable, unfairness of life.

MissBartlettsconscience · 22/11/2018 19:45

Op, you did the right thing in getting your LO checked with a cold. Yes it's embarrassing to be told it's just a cold and go away, but my sister went from bad cold to being dead of pneumonia over a weekend when she was a baby do it is always better to check than not.

Queenofthedrivensnow · 22/11/2018 19:48

@Eastie77 iirc the policy is that a referral is suggested if there are 3 visits. The HCP is encouraged to use their discretion based on other factors and context of the visits.

Immobile babies are the most vulnerable group out there so hcp more likely to err on the side of caution re referral.

Ooplesandbanoonoos · 22/11/2018 19:48

I feel for you OP its hard to know what is normal and what is not. Ive had my mum and sister to call for reassurance with these things. Not everyone has that.
Its good you are going to look into some of the advice about ways to help with the anxiety about health.
Re social services i can understand why they are having to follow up due to the number of calls and then not being seen to follow advice from 111. I would be annoyed too however much i understood why they had to do it! But i think - based on the information you have given- that you will find you will have very little contact with them. Be honest about your worries. Share the context of the calls including the recent one.
Good luck it is not easy being a mum!

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 19:50

Lyndar there’s been many unnecessary and unpleasant posts that don’t count as advice, just putting the boot it.

JassyRadlett · 22/11/2018 19:51

The thing you learn when you have children that you probably didn’t know before is that 111 is a generally rubbish service and particularly rubbish when it comes to children.

They are our only route to out of hours GP where I am (though thankfully the local health centre has just started a Saturday emergency clinic). The only time I’ve ever called them about the kids and not been sent to A&E was the time A&E were horrified we hadn’t been sent immediately, preferably by ambulance, as DS2 had classic and escalating meningitis symptoms.

I have zero faith in the service. Complain, for sure.