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111 reported me to Social Services! Absolutely Fuming!!! (Sorry- LONG)

415 replies

discopisco · 22/11/2018 15:00

Posting here for traffic.

Background:

Me and DH are ftp to a much wanted and planned 11 week old baby. Baby is beautiful and the cutest thing we’ve ever seen but he’s a notoriously bad sleeper (he’s a cat napping meerkat at best). That coupled with the fact that baby has had a consistent cold/viral infection since 9 days old has meant that we’re both constantly exhausted and feel like we’ve been hit by a bus.

Context:

Baby has so far had a number of visits to see the GP for feeding/digestive issues and two visits to A&E- the first at 9 days of age because he wasn’t feeding well (diagnosed with a cold and prescribed saline drops) and the second time at 9 weeks old for the same issue plus him appearing drowsy/sleepy (totally out of character for the poor guy). The second visit to A&E came about when I rang NHS 111. The lady asked me a million questions and then said she was calling an ambulance just to be on the safe side. I cried thinking I’d missed major signs related to baby being poorly but she was lovely and reassuring and said baby seemed fine and the ambulance people would simply check him to see if further action was needed. As it happens, the paramedics arrived within minutes and carried out their assessments. They said they weren’t worried in the least and asked me why I’d requested an ambulance. I told Them I hadn’t- the lady at 111 had. At this, they looked at each other and rolled their eyes and one of them said something along the lines of ‘bloody idiots need their heads knocking together’. They told me that since they had been called they would have to take baby to A&E to get him checked over by medical staff. When we got to hospital and they handed us over to the triage nurse, she asked why they’d been sent out to see a child with symptoms of the cold. One of the paramedic said ‘111’ and the nurse mouthed ‘bloody t@ats’. After a couple of hours, baby was seen by the Paediatrician, diagnosed again as having a cold, prescribed saline drops again and we were sent home.

Current situation:

Baby was seriously congested, didn’t want to feed as much and wasn’t sleeping much at all- he’d sleep for a few minutes and would then wake up spluttering. I’d pick him up, pat his back and put him down again but the same thing would happen. Thinking 111 was an out of hours GP service and would advise me, I called them and asked them what I could do to help the baby breathe a bit better. After getting his details wrong a couple of times, I was passed onto someone else who also struggled to locate baby’s details on the 111 computer system. This second person was curt and very, very cold. She asked me a number of questions in a very robotic manner and simply wanted a yes/no answer. She asked me if baby was grunting when he breathed. I told her I didn’t think so but I didn’t know what a grunting breath sounded like. So I mimicked the baby and said ‘is that what you mean? Is that grunting?’ She said she wasn’t in a position to say as she wasn’t there with us. She asked me again if baby was grunting so I asked her to give me an example of a grunt- she said she couldn’t as different people had different versions of what a grunt was! In the end, I said baby was not grunting. At the end of the assessment, she said the baby didn’t sound like he was in danger but we should take him to A&E. I thanked her and said if he wasn’t in any danger then I’d keep an eye on him for the next couple of hours and if he got worse, I’d take him to hospital as my husband (the only driver) was ill himself and had taken medication that made him drowsy (I’d have called a cab). At this, she became incredulous and confrontational and said ‘are you putting your welfare ahead of your child’s? You need to get him to A&E now!’ Because she was so aloof throughout the call, the tone she used to speak to me made me see red so I repeated what I had said firmly that I’d monitor the baby myself and if things got any worse, I’d take him to the hospital. I explained we’d been in previously and been told the baby had had a cold and needed to rest it out. I said I didn’t think waiting in A&E past midnight on a cold night would do him any good. She completely ignored what I had said and kept talking over me repeating ‘so you’re not taking him to A&E?!’ When I said ‘not for the moment, no’. She said ‘right, I’m reporting you to social services- your child should be your first priority!’ When I asked to speak to her manager, she told me there wasn’t one but she’d get the duty Gp to call us as a matter of urgency.

We did end up going into A&E (at 1:30am) as baby’s temperature was slightly on the low side. The triage nurse told us baby looked okay. She also said since it was a busy night, we should be prepared for a long wait. While waiting, we got a call from the duty Dr at 111. She said from what we’d told her that the baby had a cold and that he needed a rest. She said it was good we’d gone into A&E just to be on the safe side. She apologised when I explained what her colleague had said about making a referral to Social Services. She said she’d put a note on the system for everything to be put on hold and that she’d get someone to give me a call in the morning to talk through that horrendous 111 call. We ended up waiting in a corridor from 1:30-8:30am (no beds cubicles/beds available as there were children there with much serious ailments) and when were seen by the Paediatrician, we were told they’d put us at the bottom of the list as baby had not been deemed ill/serious enough! We were given some more saline drops and sent on our way.

We got home about lunchtime and as I was rocking the baby to sleep. DH got a call from an anonymous number- our local social services! The social worker said we’d been referred overnight as a matter of urgency did he agree that our son was in danger of being neglected? DH told her about the call and how he felt it was a malicious referral and that he was not willing to discuss matters any further as we’d be making a formal complaint against the 111 member of staff for escalating things without reason. The SW told him that since a referral was made, they’d have to act one way or another- either with his consent or without!

To cut an even longer story short- no one from 111 direct called us again to query what had happened. The Social Worker has since passed on our details to the local children’s centre and we’ve had them make contact re: baby’s welfare. We’ve asked for support re: his sleep which although needed is more to get them off our backs. I’m so so so upset and angry that SS were used as a threat/ammunition by the 111 worker in an attempt to force us to comply to her dodgy assessment. I’m a regular user of the children’s centre and am now paranoid and self-conscious that the staff there will think I’m a bad mum because SS are involved with our family and that theyll pick on the littlest thing to report me again?! It’s put me off going to anymore sessions with the baby.

Both me and DH are professionals who are incredibly responsive parents. We are not a SS family. We need help getting the baby to sleep but can do that through a sleep consultant privately. We do not need a SW keeping an eye on us to do that.

So, my question is what should I do next? I’ve contacted 111 again and asked them to get someone senior to call me back re: a complaint. I’m thinking of contacting my local MP about this too. I can’t stand the Daily Fail but I hope one of their journalists is reading this and reports it. I’m so so upset. The relentlessness of motherhood- the constant feedings, changing, sleeplessness, lack of social support, etc. was already a massive struggle but I was managing to stay on the right side of good mental health. This referral is overwhelming me and I fear it’s going to lead to PND, especially since I’m reluctant to take the baby to sessions at the children’s centre. He’s been poorly as it is and we’ve been cooped up at home but I don’t know how I’ll be able to entertain him/socialise once he’s better because I can’t return to the children’s centre. I can’t do it- I feel so ashamed.

Apologies for the rant/she said- I said post but I just needed to get this off my chest. Would welcome other perspectives/advice/guidance.

OP posts:
discopisco · 22/11/2018 18:22

Thank you so much @Jaynesworld - I needed to hear that to feel vindicated- especially after some of the not-so-helpful posts I've read on here.

OP posts:
MarvinMarvinson · 22/11/2018 18:23

God OP, this thread is infuriating- I wish people would read properly before wading in and sticking the boot in.

I'd hide it now if I were you. You've had some good advice inbetween the goady bollocks.

For what it's worth, I don't think you've done anything wrong at all. 111 is absolutely not 'one step down from 999' as some daft bugger has suggested upthread. It's also OOH for your area - as you've pointed out more than once. Where I live it's also a nurse advice line so entirely appropriate to call for advice in the circumstances you describe.

I hope the social services visit goes ok and you can put this all behind you soon.

Worriedandanxiousmama · 22/11/2018 18:23

We are not a SS family. I don’t think anyone ever considers themselves a SS family! And they don’t only do all the ‘wicked’ things the Daily Fail would have them do - they also support families who need help. It sounds like you might have needed help.
The 111 operator probably did overreact, but as others have pointed out, that’s a lot of calls/trips to a&e. There are safeguarding triggers that will always necessitate a referral to SS. Maybe the number of calls/visits were a flag that can lead to a referral. (I know schools have a list of safeguarding markers for referral.)

We’re a professional couple. High earning, well-educated. We’ve been referred to SS by the kids’ primary school. We were struggling with our youngest child (he’s disabled). They helped us a lot. Discharged a few years ago, no involvement since, but at the time it’s exactly what we all needed, even though at the time we couldn’t see it. But I’ve also seen awful cases of neglect and abuse that fall through SS cracks because the family were ‘naice’ - with grandparents helping cover up events.
Work with them, not against them.

Steakandkidney · 22/11/2018 18:23

Lyndar-back off. Start your own thread.

discopisco · 22/11/2018 18:24

FTP- first time parents not full time parents.

OP posts:
jarhead123 · 22/11/2018 18:24

Ha ha SO sorry, that was me being dim!!

Conseulabananahammock · 22/11/2018 18:24

Havent read full thread yet, but speaking from a vast amount of experience with my children. Poor sleeping, snuffling a lot, congestion all point to a potential dairy or cmpa allergy. Id ask to be referred if it continues. Also keep an eye on nappies, any dry skin, ezcema looking patches etc

craftinglife · 22/11/2018 18:25

OP- ignore some of the crazy replies on this thread! Clear trolls trying to get a kick. What you have experienced is terrifying and you have my sympathy. I don't have any advice other than just know that you ARE a good parent and continue to be that and everything will work out Thanks

thewinehasgonetomyhead · 22/11/2018 18:28

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gruffaloshmuffalo · 22/11/2018 18:31

I work for 111. The service isn't perfect, no service is, but the other health advisors I work will all use their common sense. In our trust, ambulance is never sent unless agreed to, and we don't send everyone to A&E. We can only go off the information callers tell us. We do, and I have, spoken with clinical managers/nurses/paramedics who work with me if I have concerns about the call itself to try and get the correct outcome for the patient.

I've raised a few safeguarding concerns at my time here, but all but one have been with consent, and the one without consent was regarding a lack of capacity.

I'm sorry OP you've had such a rough ride, and you should ask for it to be investigated further if you have concerns.

Ali1cedowntherabbithole · 22/11/2018 18:38

To reassure you OP SS are not the gestapo. They don't have resources to look into every nook and cranny of your life.

It is most likely that you will get a phone call or visit to see if you need support. Unless there are very serious red flags they won't be looking at your police record or your medical records. Please ignore the poster who is suggesting this.

On the other hand from the information in your OP you would trigger a concern in most counties and while I'm sorry you found the call handler snotty, she was entirely correct to refer you. She probably also had to make you aware of the referral.

Can you try to see this as helpful and not pejorative?

You are anxious and struggling - nothing wrong with that at all - being a first time parent is tough. Do the "professional" thing and take their advice on board.

FWIW one of the things professional women sometimes find difficult is the lack of control when your entire life is dictated by a tiny being. Grin it's ok to acknowledge this.

In short an anxious Mum has been referred to social care because she sounds like she needs support. And in my book that is a good thing.

I hope your little one turns a corner soon Brew

OverTheHedgeSammy · 22/11/2018 18:42

In our area we can't ring OOH GP anymore. We HAVE to ring 111 and they decide whether you get a call back from the OOH GP or whether you have to go to A&E.

As a result I have several times gone to the GP on a Friday with an ill child, saying I KNOW they didn't require medication yet, but checking at what point they would (what are the markers etc) and to get a 'just in case' prescription as it was Friday and if they were going to get worse it would happen over the weekend. (ds2 was prone to major throat and ear infections). I rarely had to get the prescription filled fortunately, but it saves me from the horror that was weekend A&E.

Tatgalore · 22/11/2018 18:42

Discopiscoive just skimmed your other thread Thanks

I had a non sleeping baby, he had reflux which didn't help. I know what it's like, I was on my knees with exhaustion. I can rem miner the gp asking if I was getting enough sleep, what was I supposed to answer? Even if I wasn't what were they going to do?

He only slept when I eventually gave in and co slept, I can remember a nurse being really snippy with me about it and making me cry, but the alternative was to continue to survive on 3 hours sleep.

Anyhow, he's 3 now and is still a shit sleeper, but it's nowhere near as bad.

Hang on in there.

Bouledeneige · 22/11/2018 18:44

Yes referring you to social services was just wrong. You are right to be upset and angry.

But a colds a cold and babies and toddlers get a lot of them so try to start building your confidence and trust your instincts - is my baby really really ill? There's no need to keep calling 111 - no ones going to help your baby get to sleep. Establish some good routines and keep at it, get naps and a break when you can.

It's one of the biggest challenges of having your first new baby - you can't believe you're left on your own to cope. But every phase in a baby's life is short and it changes rapidly. You will exhaust yourselves if you contact 111, Doctors or go to A&E every time they are a bit off colour. You're in this for the long haul so start trusting your own judgement.

And yes I know what I'm talking about. My first baby puked 4 times a day every day for 6 months and never slept well. Nothing wrong with her and she never came close to dying or disability. It was exhausting. It passed in the blink of an eye.

Roaring · 22/11/2018 18:51

I think you just need to engage with SS and it'll blow over. If you don't you'll just be getting more calls.
It's not SS's fault that 111 referred to them. Whilst I appreciate how upset you are it's rude to hang up on them tbh.
Taking baby out in a pram for a walk will not lead to him being ill. It might help you both. It might help with his sleep it might just break up the crying a bit. Op you're in a difficult situation and getting help is nothing to be ashamed off. Soldering on when there's no need to martyr yourself isn't the solution. sS will probably refer to HV and they will come out and check on you and baby. My neighbour had a little one with silent reflux and the support from the HV saved the day for her. Don't be ashamed!!! You're doing your best and thats all that matters.

Whedon · 22/11/2018 18:52

I'm sure some extra support would be beneficial and help with the anxiety. No one is judging you at the children's centre, they're there to help.

Drummingisfun · 22/11/2018 18:55

111 is really hit and miss.

I've not rtft but if no-one else has suggested it, invest in a snot sucker, the Nosefreida one is excellent. If you use saline drops, wait 15 mins then do the snot sucker baby can usually breathe enough for a decent feed or sleep.

We found a hot steam humidifier very useful too, we have the vicks one.
Both my kids have been snotty coldy kids since the newborn stage so we've tried a lot of things.

littlemisssunshine18 · 22/11/2018 19:01

I was with you, right up until you said 'we are not a SS family' .
You should contact your health visitor and local citizens advice bureau for advice.
Please also be aware that being a 'professional' doesn't make you a higher class citizen. People of all walks of life can neglect their children.

poppyseedbloomers · 22/11/2018 19:03

I'm a SS family. I'm a professional. I don't read the DM.

I was angry and scared when I was referred. Scared that my child would be taken away. I could not believe it was happening to me. My life looked perfect from the outside. But many years down the line, most of the things they were worried about, that I could not see due to depression and DV, they were right about. I had no extended family support, and high anxiety. So I suppose what I am saying is. Be angry about the referral, but forget wasting your time on complaints procedures. Focus on your baby and yourself. And be open to advice and experience. Just because you and your OH are professionals doesn't mean that parenting won't be difficult. Exhaustion and a poorly baby take it's toll. This too shall pass.

IAteMyCrumpetIAteItAllUp · 22/11/2018 19:04

And yes, from where I'm from and how I've been brought up, there is masssssssssiiiivvvvve stigma attached to SS involvement.

Well, maybe this episode is the universe's way of teaching you to replace your awful snobbery with compassion for others.

Bet you were far, far ruder to the 111 call handler than you're letting on here too.

Thewheelsarefallingoff · 22/11/2018 19:05

Yanbu, op. 111 is a totally useless service, I wouldn't phone them again. When 111 was 'NHS Direct' they were really good at providing OOH advice. Now it's nothing or ambulance with no in between. I phoned them once for DD a few years ago and got an ambulance and a year ago for DS at Xmas and got an ambulance. Both times I was saying "I can drive to A&E" and both times felt an utter tit and got told off when I got to the hospital. What can you do?

Queenofthedrivensnow · 22/11/2018 19:08

Urgh sounds a bit crap..

I think 3 a and e visits in a year trigger a referral but that's at the respondents discretion. 111 person sounds like a bit of a jobsworth.

Being refereed to ss isn't the end of the world. In 10 years of sw I haven't yet removed a baby because it had a cold ;-)

Rach000 · 22/11/2018 19:12

Don't think you did anything wrong. We thought 111 was more of an advise service. We called for my 3 year old not long ago and they sent a paramedic out. Who then had to sit and wait in her car to get us booked into an out of hours appointment. Seemed like a waste of time when 111 could have just given us an appointment. The paramedic also rolled her eyes when we said, not sure why they send you out as she wasn't that bad and we had said we would just drive her to a and e as it is 5 mins down the road. We knew what the problem was as had happened before and it wasn't as bad as first time.

Cleo2628 · 22/11/2018 19:12

111 are useless. I called when I had severe morning sickness and they read me a long list of things I could do to prevent spreading my vomiting illness eg don’t share towels!!! Ridiculous.

Side note - have you had your baby checked for cows milk allergy? Mine had a persistent cold since being days old & at it was one of the symptoms of CMPA

Imissgmichael · 22/11/2018 19:12

Iv only rung 111 twice and both times I’ve been less than impressed. I was mortified at their lack of medical knowledge or even basic common sense. As a former nurse I wouldn’t want the two 111 staff I spoke to deal with a dead goldfish. In addition, on both occasions they were dismissive and rude from the outset.

It’s about time the present system was scrapped and replaced with a system were you could actually speak to a medically qualified professional.

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