Advice about in-laws and babysitting

[SilverBirchTree]

My in-laws love my one year old very much and he loves them. They are incredibly loving and fun with him.

However- As often as not a visit with them will involve MIL doing something I feel is a bit dangerous or unhygienic with my son. But I am a worrier by nature and it’s hard for me to judge whether my expectations are normal.

For example, in the last two weeks:

She wiped his face and hands with a soiled dish cloth she found in our sink. I’d used it to wipe up raw egg and kitchen spray earlier in the day. She didn’t seem to understand why I asked her to use his baby wipes instead.

On another occasion my son had a wooden xylophone stick in his mouth. She picked him up and play wrestled with him, rolling him around on the floor while was holding the stick in his month. She didn’t seem to understand why I interrupted and took the stick away.

My son has started thrashing around and standing up when his nappy is changed. We change him on a changing table with a seat belt style strap or on a soft mat on the floor so he doesn’t fall or smack his head. She tried to change him on our stone kitchen bench (high off the ground and right next to a ceramic vase, a wine bottle etc). My husband asked her not to.

This is just the last two weeks, but it’s been like this since he was born. I know none of these actions are outrageously negligent. I know lots of parents are more relaxed than I am. But I feel like I’ve spent the last year asking her to be more careful about safety, and she doesn’t take 90% of my concerns on board.

I’ve just returned to work and my mother has offered to watch him one day a week. We have hired a wonderfully qualified nanny for the other days. We did not ask my In laws to babysit purely because MIL and I don’t see eye to eye on safety issues.

It was launched world war three. For days now my in-laws have called DH crying and shouting. They’ve literally said that not being invited to babysit is the worst, most hurtful thing anyone has ever done to them. They say they don’t think they can forgive us and that we have fractured the family. We visited them to try and make peace but they continued to attack, shout, insult and cry. They were incredibly hostile towards me in front of my child. They obviously blame me for all of it although my husband and I are in agreement.

If you read this far thank you.

Basically AIBU about this safety stuff? Any advice for me about childcare in this situation? I hate conflict and I am just stunned by the extremity of their reaction and don’t know what to say or do. We are devastated by this rift, and just so overwhelmed.

What a ramble... sorry. Any advice would be amazing.

@MortyVicar thanks for this. It's hard to accept but I keep re-reading your post and it rings true.

What's the next step? What do we do? I just feel horrible with this ugliness hanging over me. I want resolution but they are never going to give it to me.

What do I do about my son? He loves them. They are barrels of fun and energy with him. They are now deeply offended by the thought that their visits with him are 'supervised and judged'. Every visit will be so so so unpleasant. I don't think I can go on like this for the next 30 years or however long.

It's the middle of the night where you are- you will see things differently in the morning. This may not be resolved now- it may be that once things calm down, they can see that tantrumming isn't going to get what they want, and become more reasonable, on the surface at least. Allow this to play out, you can't solve it in one night. It sounds the more you write that this power struggle has been going on quite a long time, since your son was born, and it won't just disappear immediately.

Much as they are fun and energetic with your son, you don't want to leave them in sole charge and that's your decision. Your son also won't want to grow up and hear his mum spoken of badly or shouted at, so at some point I think you have to probably start dealing with the real situation and not the ideal one you have in your head about what his grandparents are like.

My husband's parents couldn't be left in sole charge, it was just the way it was, and we only interact with them if they are polite and don't shout (which they used to do). The children love their grandparents. It doesn't have to be NC unless they chose it.

Have a look on the "but we took you to stately homes" thread. Your kindness stands out a mile, but you cannot negotiate sensibly with deeply manipulative people.

It is normal that they were disappointed and a bit hurt. Their subsequent reactions, especially verbally attacking you in front of their son and grandchild is deeply abnormal and plain WRONG.

OP you can't control their reaction, you can only control yours. They aren't going to give you what you want, which (a) is to look after your DS in the way you (quite reasonably) want them to and (b) is to be reasonable about it so that (c) they can still have a good relationship with DS and he with them.

So honestly - you have to accept that you can't have what you want. If you keep on hoping that if only you and DH say/do the right thing they'll come round, you're going to keep being disappointed. They've shown you how things are going to be, on their terms.

Remember why this started - because you and DH don't trust them to keep your son safe. It's fine them loving him and him loving them, but it's going to count for nothing if any harm were to come to him.

If this means you have minimal or no contact with them, so be it. Your DS is only little, he'll get over it. You can't spend the next 30 years trying to placate them, because they're not the sort to be placated. Accept that they are who they are, and leave them to get on with it. The current ugliness isn't your doing.

OP you have come an awful long way on this thread - from wondering if YOU were being UR, to trying to rectify with flowers, to now"seeing" it for what it really is.

Stepping back to see how they relate to others, as well as collating all of the "little things" they have done to date to you tells you their MO.

Keep recalling, observing, noting and joining all the dots.

Once you start reading up on toxic narcs it all becomes really very simple - they all behave in the same systematic predictable way and there is only one way through it ie either NC (easier in the long run) or v LC with high boundaries with crystal clear consequences that are followed thru, grey rock (all v exhausting to be so hyper-vigilent 24/7). But you will probably end up NC anyway.

Don't try to understand them or work through each issue - see everything through the bigger context of toxic/narc/control/rage/scapegoat etc and then you will see the repeated patterns.

The biggest risk you face right now is giving them an inch by engaging, placating, responding, indulging. You need EVERYTHING to be fronted up, shoulder to shoulder by both the of you - otherwise they will see a chink of light and manipulate your DH against you (looks like they already have if he chose not to tell you about their behaviour until much later when your baby was ill).

You need also need to appreciate that these types will consume suck your thoughts, energy and emotions as you will always be trying to get ahead of them - they will leave you drained and negative. You need to decide is this how you will choose to allocate your finite emotional energy - negatively on them - rather than positively with your DS surrounded by emotionally healthy people.

Maybe show your DH this thread and seek some counselling together to support you both though this.

Does your DH have siblings? If so what is their experience of ILs?

I would also spend some time coming to terms with, accepting and grieving for the type of GP relationship that you thought your DS would have with your ILs.

"Address your own fear, obligation and guilt properly re his parents, your Dh certainly needs to do this as well."

This with bells on. Listen to Attila!!

I recommend the book "Toxic In-Laws" by Susan Forward, as well as "Toxic Parents" (which I mentioned in an earlier post).

Don't be put off by the word "toxic" if it seems too extreme. The books are very useful for different levels of dysfunctional dynamics.

Why not try kicking off back at them? Go all out crazy next time they have a pop at you!

I've got relatives who are a bit like this. Admitting liability or pandering to the behaviour only worsens it. You have to make them see that it won't get them what they want. I wouldn't give the behaviour any airtime. I'd just, very bluntly, say that it is not open to discussion, you have said what you think and that's the end of it. I may go as far as to call out the behaviour, something like, 'To be frank, your behaviour is doing nothing to help our impression of your ability to be responsible. What example are your setting with this?' How they react is up to them and not your concern.

You are not responsible for how anyone else feels. Do what is best for you and yours.

Your expectations are absolutely reasonable , you can’t compromise on safety and what they did was unsafe. Your son is too little and can’t stand for himself so you, his parents, must do this.
But the main problem for me is their attitude and that they don’t want listen to you at all. They can’t do what they want with your child, you and your DH are the one who decide how to care about your son and they must respect this.
I don’t think you should send them cards, flowers or whatever. I think your DH should visit alone next weekend and inform them that you, as parents, decided on childcare and that’s it, discussion closed. I think it’s actually much easier to get these things from your own son then from DIL, it’s more difficult to hate your own child. I also strongly believe in approach when each partner informs his own parents about unpopular decisions using “I think/ I decide” instead of “ we think”.
At the moment it became a battle of wills for your PILs . It’s not about their grandchild at all, it’s about them not wanting to follow your rules, because they don’t accept your rights and authority.
Just stick to your plans, let your DH do a few visits on his own, then try visit altogether but never leave them alone with your son. Yes, they are watched and judged, but they chose wrong approach to prove that they can be trusted. Instead of listening you and do as they asked they are trying to prove that no matter whatever they are doing your son will survive. They are trying to prove that their approach is right one not yours, instead of thinking what is better for their grandchild.
I had this problem with both set of GPs. I felt in my heart that they cannot be trusted and found difficult to discuss it at first even with my DH, I thought I looked paranoid. We live far away so it makes things a bit easy. I just never left my DD with GPs when we were visiting. Literally a couple of time I relaxed and we had very unsafe situations which ended up ok as DH was near by.
I’m very sorry that you are in this situation but you are not blame. You tried and tried. You must think about your son.

Thanks all. Feeling better about it today. We're not going to contact them for now. If they call us we'll offer to meet them in a cafe so they can see DS and speak to us about the weather if they wish. I will not discuss their grievances anymore unless in a counsellors office. If they are rude in any way we'll leave.

Thank you to everyone for the advice. I was flabbergasted yesterday and couldn't make sense of it. Yesterday my focus was reconciliation, today my focus is boundaries and peace. They have a choice to make.

Good luck op, I don't think you're being unreasonable at all.

Sounds very sensible, good luck x

Well done OP.

Be hyper-vigilant - these types will do everything to get to you and disrupt your boundaries - expect them to turn up, send letters/gifts, send other people, feign a crisis/illness....to batter your boundaries. The crying, drama, hysterics will continue. Sit back and laugh at the pantomime. But this is also very exhausting - dont let that stress filter and disrupt your marriage and family. Protect yourself.

Cafe, neutral public space where you both attend and agree with a nod to get up and walk calmly at any point in advance is great. Counselling with abusive people - never, ever. You are giving them oxygen, the are skilled manipulaters and will abuse you there - they will take anything you say and twist it for years. They have shown YOU who they are now, they have shown others who they are repeatedly in the past and they will continue to be who they are for the rest of their lives. You will not change them.

The biggest risk is your DH - he needs to be 100% on board. What does he think of his parents?

I also think that the safety stuff was deliberate to provoke and hurt you as they know you are cautious. Was it one or other of them MIL or FIL or both.

My own MIL was v controlling and passive aggressive. She was insistent on taking my 4 year old to her special hairdresser - I put it off for ages and then gave in - I instructed repeatedly DO NOT CUT a fringe - guess what - DD came back with the shortest, bluntest fringe. All about power.

Good update, good for you.

@another20 DH is on board. His parents have never treated him like this before (he is still reeling from it) but he's seen them blow up and cut off other people before. They don't speak to much of their family and can count their friends on one hand. He's seeing them in a new light but also not surprised, if that makes sense. When he was younger he took their word that his uncle etc must have been so bad that his parents went NC. As he got older and saw them do it more, he's seen that the common denominator in these blow up relationships is his parents.

They are generous, fun personable people- if you are 'in' with them. They have been incredibly generous with their time and money to us in the past. They are not totally bad people. But they have this mindset that people who disagree or disappoint them are their enemies. They can't agree to disagree with anyone, they must be punished and cast out.

This is so hard for DH because until he told them no over this, they had a close positive relationship and we all spent a lot of time together. Now he's 'out'. They basically threatened to disown him. It's so so hurtful for him.

@another20 we're not planning to say much in counseling. I'll more be asking questions and trying to listen.

I think we need tools to communicate with PIL and also give PIL an opportunity to reflect on their views with some professional neutral guidance.

When FIL was crying hysterically all I could think was there must be something medically wrong with him to be acting like that. He's an educated man who holds a senior professional responsible job as well as other roles in the community. I cannot understand how he was unable to control his emotions, after having 3 days to calm down. After reading some responses here, I learnt a lot about toxic people/controlling people. So I don't know if he was doing it to manipulate us or if he's genuinely not coping emotionally/medically (dementia can present like this right?) and needs help.

Either way I figured counseling might help.

@another20 sorry I missed your question. The safety stuff was 99% MIL. FIL is actually pretty cautious by nature and would even pull MIL up occasionally and tell her to be more safe.

Dh and I have said to each other many times that we had no issue with FIL babysitting, it's just that they come as a pair and MIL can't go long without doing something silly and FIL isn't reliable at stopping her.

But the emotional blow up, the threats, the yelling, the ultimatums... was both of them. FIL was louder and consistently hysterical and enraged whereas MIL fluctuated from being sad/sneering/angry/defensive. They both behaved appallingly, but he was worse.

80s/90s school of parenting vs Today's. I have battles with my own Mother on a weekly basis about little things that can have big consequences.

I was a H&S manager FFS. She just can't see the potential risks.

Just leave it and move on. Let them do the running (and apologising) if they want a relationship with their GC. If not then it’s for the best.

The safety issues are just a side show - you really need to pay attention to how they behave:

"emotional blow up, the threats, the yelling, the ultimatums... was both of them. FIL was louder and consistently hysterical and enraged whereas MIL fluctuated from being sad/sneering/angry/defensive. They both behaved appallingly, but he was worse."

"So I don't know if he was doing it to manipulate us or if he's genuinely not coping emotionally/medically (dementia can present like this right?) and needs help."

Yes toxic people control others with volatility - threat or actual eruption of anger - keeping everyone on their toes. You do not want to experience this again so you will tap dance to avoid provoking. Doubt dementia - this is how they behave all their lives.

Dementia? They've been falling out with people for years and years, haven't they?

Some people can be intellegent and capable in many ways but also completely lacking in emotional intelligence.

Sorry this continues to give you so much grief, OP. The bottom line is that the relationship must continue on your terms, in respect of care of your most precious gift.. your baby. No relationship is worth the risk. Your PILs can choose to comply or fail to comply with consequences accordingly. Ours did eventually calm down but the rules were not relaxed as a result. Once the trust is gone it’s hard to trust again where safety is the issue. It’s interesting that you say MIL was more of an issue...we also had this. She even waved away PIL and shouted at him, when he suggested she take more care over certain things. She also ignored others about this. It wasn’t just us. Once she brought her friend along on a visit to see DS...they wanted to take him out in the buggy. MIL refused to take the changing bag along, plus DSs gloves and hat (it was a cold day and they were going to be out for a while). Her friend pointed this out, and was waved aside rudely by MIL. Some people just don’t want to be told...it threatens their control. I eventually developed a thick skin where the histrionics were concerned.

Good update, OP. I hope they come round, but well done for not caving in to their demands. It can be very tough to stick to your guns in these situations.