Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

I am SE Asian and haven't experienced racism since the 1980's ......... I hope it's not because I have been blind to any hidden racism

If you're worried about racism in a rural area why don't you move up north but to a town or city?

I am Asian in Leeds. Millions of us. Very integrated. Never felt my race has been an issue once.

Also Cherries post is actually spot on. My parents didn't really integrate into British society which I think it's a real shame and it's hypocritical to think their home country is better - because if it was then why come to UK for a better life. I can see why posters would be offended but what Cherries has posted is somewhat true

Your situation puts you in a privileged position it’s not the same as OPs

Yes and no. My kids didn’t feel privileged on occasion when they were made fun of, called ghosts (due to white skin), accuses of having evil powers due to their funny eyes (Caucasian blue) etc. They didn’t feel privileged when kids go through those bitchy phases and could easily exclude by making sure only another language, that everyone bar them could understand at recess/lunch while pointing and laughing. They didn’t feel privileged when they started school and didn’t really have any friends for a year while the other kids learnt English. But that’s all kids stuff, kids are kids and they ended up with great friends by the time they left school.

I’m not sure they felt that privileged having no one to play with around where they live either. Ironically they went to school out of area (convenience for drop off, pick up and application really had to be approved as I’m sure they were worried about an appeal based on racism if they refused) but they then had the same issues at home. What was once a ‘traditional’ neighbourhood basically changed overnight when they were toddlers. Foreign money pushed house prices up several fold meaning people were clambering to take the cash and leave. We didn’t as location is convenient. End result, over 2/3 years, we became one of two white families left in a street of roughly 150 houses. The other families would not let their kids play with ours as they saw them as inferior and somehow contact may make their kids become dumb. Yes, I was told that when trying to make connections for my kids to play with other kids. Think maybe a very poor way of expressing that seeing my kids may make their kids rebel against out of school tutoring 7 days a week, only thing I could think of?????

So while my kids may be privileged by being white in a first world country they sure as shit didn’t feel privileged a lot of the time and I’m not going to deny their feelings.

you might be a bit safer not in london with all the stabbings.

Just to say OP totally understand and agree with your concerns. We live in a nice part of London in a nice house/catchment area but DH wants a work/life balance which has led us to contemplate different areas/countries and racism is a concern. The north has always been scratched off the list from my memories of visiting family around Oldham/Rochdale. Life was and is very different to how life is and was in London. We are seriously contemplating Scotland (family links) as society seems less divided.

I hear your concerns and I do think they’re valid. I’m white, but have a welsh friend with a biracial husband and son. They moved from London back to rural wales near her parents and I know that they experience racism which was never an issue in London.

Personally, I would stay in London. Could you move to the edges somewhere in suburbia but not too far from the city and get more for your money there? I know it’s still expensive, but slightly less so. I’m in London but in an outer borough and know friends further out into the next county who are still technically in a fringe area which is diverse and vibrant and have brought three beds for circa £300k.

If you're considering Clitheroe then perhaps Skipton (God forbid a BD postcode! 😆) Ilkley or Harrogate.. all with good access to nature, good schools and transport/road links to Leeds.

We are in a similar position, but east Asian, not Indian (I'm white though, our daughter is mixed.)

I don't know what the answers are, I know we get way more comments outside of London and my daughter is the age where she's starting to ask why people shout 'ni hao' at her dad in the street (he's not even Chinese ffs). In London, it really only happens when we pass by school trips of European teenagers - outside London, it happens probably daily. Plus, the inevitable 'slitty eyed' comments/gestures.

Don't know. It's easy for white people to say 'oh it's very diverse here, that would never happen' but it's another when you/your kids actually live it.

IdiotsIdiotsEverywhere has said exactly what I think.

The villages you mention are lovely but as you quite rightly say, the schools aren't great.
If your children got into CRGS, they wouldn't be in the minority. The percentage of Asian children is high. They come from all over...Blackburn, Burnley, Nelson, Colne, Foulridge, Laneshawbridge, Preston.

We live in a rural area and I would say 10% of the children are of asian heritage and probably third or fourth generation. There is still a little racism, but there is racism everywhere still, even at that low level. There are snobs too, which is another form of prejudice. I would say you would find more prejudice living in a town than you would a small village. We are not talking bricks through windows though.

Anybody moving to the country needs to be sympathetic to farming and rural life if they want to be part of that community. Don't roar in and out of villages in Audi's at 60 mph. There are kids riding ponies and people walking down these lanes. Don't complain in Spring that the countryside stinks of poo when the farmers are spreading the winter manure over their fields. It has to go somewhere and they are providing our food. You won't change the countryside irrespective of ethnic background.

I would visit the schools you are thinking about to see what the atmosphere is like. You get a feel for a place.
Happy smiling children, or lots of little groups of loners or a crowd of wild boys fighting over the football.

Your attitude is sounding quite precious, really it is.

I think it's your attitude that could make you
Unwelcome rather than anything else

Sounds like you'd be best off staying in London.

After all, the Schools in rural areas are a " bit crappy"

Nah.... stay where you are.

I'm a professional and have faced covert racism living in London. I dread to think how pronounced that would be elsewhere around the country.
Between this, other suggestions that racism is rife in the crumbling ruins beyond the M25, crap schools etc why not just stay in London? You clearly don't think very much of the rest of the country if you 'dread' considering what us non London folk are like.
Sorry, but I never get this thinking when people move out of London as it has a touch of 'I don't love London, but London has all of this and is wonderful and the rest of the UK must be poor, racist, poorly educated, full of crime etc'.

We moved from very south to very North west, almost Scotland ( I've purposely not named the county )
I'd say this area is not very welcome of anyone ( I'm white British) who is not from the area. I've lived here 10+ years and still known as an ' offcomer " and apparently will always be. Any new people are accused of ramping up the house prices and taking the better paid jobs.

I think you get racist idiots anywhere tbh. Schools vary and I wouldn't necessarily go by the Ofsted report I'd go look and get a feel of the place.

I'm not rural but outside a city with the sea and countryside and my son goes to a school that thankfully now has a more diverse mix e.g. from Poland, Egypt, Iraq, Thailand, Hong Kong. The kids do ask questions but I think its from curiosity rather than racism. His school embraces all the different cultures and allows children to bring in food etc when they have certain celebrations. It's great and my son loves it. So please don't be put off by some bad experiences being out of London isn't as bad as you might think.

However, you will always get stupid, ignorant people unfortunately. They'll also be the ones that think women should do all the cooking and cleaning!!

I would look at traditional commuter towns. Many have large populations who have moved out of London including diverse ethnicities. Certainly any overt racism is very firmly stamped on. The schools are generally very good. It does obviously depend though as if your religion means that you don't want your child playing outside of school with children from other religions then there probably wouldn't be a critical mass of peers. It doesn't sound as if that is the case though from what you have said.

@Lewismam
I’m sorry Tupperware party are from different decade plus I’m perfectly capable of “talking to people normally” whilst also retaining links to my Caribbean heritage and my husbands African roots.
@Ghanagirl FFS a Tupperware party was just a stereotypical example that came to mind. It could be Sarah’s bbq or Louise’s beauty spa evening, or anything else that people invite neighbours round for. And I didn’t say you weren’t capable of talking to people normally. I said some people don’t integrate with their neighbours. Not everything is about you

Your choice isn't just between London, Home Counties, rural or the areas of Bradford, Blackburn, Burnley etc that have very segregated populations.

Many suburbs of large cities (eg Leeds, Manchester) have very mixed populations and if you are used to London property prices, you could probably afford the nicer areas of Leeds or Manchester for example with good schools, diverse populations so you don't need to worry about crappy schools or racism.

Somewhere like West Park, Headingley, Chapel Allerton, Horsforth, Roundhay, Meanwood etc in north Leeds, although the schools are said to be oversubscribed.

Do you specifically want a rural area? Why not larger city which is more cosmopolitan? I am mixed race , as is my son and we live in the north in a large city. It’s very cosmopolitan and neither of us has ever experienced any messages. We also have good schools, lots of cultural activities on offer and are in easy each of countryside.

Living in, for example, Oldham, is world apart from living in Leeds or Manchester. Oldham is probably one of the least integrated places in the country so it’s absolutely not typical of other northern towns and cities.

How about Brighton OP?
DH (East Asian) and I (white European) love it.

We looked around a few nurseries...one was very white but the one we chose DS isn't the only none-white DC and the teachers are more diverse too.
Good schools too but you have to either be religious or live next door!

The Downs are only a 15min drive away and its 1h into London (southern rail permitting!)

Well said maisypops

I live near a minority white city in a village with a fair number of Asian kids but still mainly white.

To my knowledge there is one Asian girl, who suffers from racism. Dd is friends with her and I know the little girls mother pretty well. She is very traditional but at the same time very liberal.

The girls mother was born in India and has a very different way of parenting and this unfortunately makes her dd stick out. This isn’t about clothing btw. Whereas Indian parents around here have brought their children up to be colour blind and with an identity. Many of them are mixed race.

I do know what you mean about “fitting in”. However the Indian parents I know are all intelligent and / or highly educated. They tend to wear western clothes.

If you do look at villages perhaps think about how the people are in general. My village is a bit traditional: snobby tbh - I’m not local so was clueless beforehand. I honestly can’t say how well you’d fit in here wearing traditional clothes.

Growingboys
Don't get me wrong, some communities are very insular (You wouldn't live on an estate in one town near me unless you had a family connection because it's the type of place where our Susan's down near the shops near auntie pat and mam's uncle Jerry. Kids are born, raised, meet someone in the estate, move In, have kids etc.). There are racist people in every town and city, more so in any area where there's segregation over integration.

But that doesn't mean the world North of the Watford gap is some monocultural wasteland. Sometimes I think Londoners get a bit precious and snobby about live beyond the m25.