Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

I think it really depends on the area. Where we live (small town) there is plenty of diversity and excellent integration. Nobody would bat an eyelid about you being of Asian heritage because there are plenty of people from all kinds of backgrounds. The schools are good too.

It actually irritates the hell out of me when people assume that racism is inevitable outside London. It isn't. Of course, there are problems in some areas, but they are not ubiquitous.

We are a mixed race family btw.

"why is my skin colour different to Jacob/Joshua/Reece's (made up names)?" and other questions pertaining to ethnicity.

As someone else said these are not bad questions at all and are completely normal. I have much younger sisters (5 and 10) of a decent ethnicity to me due to having a different biological father and although of course these questions come up its how you answer them that matters.

I can't really see what the pros would be of a move to the kind of area that you're suggesting. If you have to pay for private schools and you might have a drop in family income then it already doesn't seem worth it.

@blueshoes - my family lives in the highly segregated Asian areas. It's not Bradford but very similar. They like it so fair enough. I don't. They don't haven't experienced racism because everyone else around them is the same! My siblings ate highly educated and well travelled but they've remained in the area we grew up in. I was the one that got away!

Are you originally from Oldham or Bradford?

^^

Or Burnley, Blackburn, Bury etc.

If so I'd try and stay in London if I were you.

Adding to that - none of the children whose names I know have anglicised their names, and some of the teachers have learned some basic phrases in several of the children’s first languages so that they can communicate with the children in the language they speak at home as well as English. I’m not sure how common that is though or if it’s just a particularly inclusive school!

There are some lovely rural areas to live in, great for bringing kids up, cleaner air, good schools, beaches. There might be a drop in salary but it's about quality of life, would your dh easily find work, would you be a bit bored if you love the London life. I think it depends on where you are thinking of moving to.

Oh, and my daughter has a bunch of friends from a whole range of different ethnic backgrounds. The only time I have ever heard them discussing skin colour has been when they were discussing make-up colours.

My mixed race dd knows all about racism, of course, but for her it is a theoretical concept rather than a lived reality. My DH did experience racial abuse here once, just after the referendum, but I have friends who have experienced similar in London too. I don't think it's more likely to happen here at all.

Well to be honest I don’t think you are talking “rural” you are talking “suburbs” which to us actual rural folk is still “townie”

Actual rural won’t have a number of schools for a start!

I live actual rural with my mixed race kids (white/Bengali) and while they are the only ones in school bar one there hasn’t been any massive issues, the odd question but innocent, the same as a disabled or kid that wears glasses would get IYSWIM. It’s not racism. Actual rural tend to have fairly tight knit communities which may seem scary at first, but are very accepting and inclusive and protective after time. And also not based on race, just being an outsider coming into somewhere new.

Now if we were to go suburb/townie where we live then racism and shit schools would be an issue, but as a PP said it’s driven by people congregating and dividing which doesn’t happen in larger cities as such. We are also a northern mining area and it simply is more of a problem there.

It’s gokng to totally depend on where you are looking at. Bet it isn’t hamlets with no shops rural though

why are you looking at those places specifically? If you are worried about the diversity of the state schools don't you think the private schools will be worse?

I think research areas and look for a place with a good school. Don't assume it will be racist, most people and plenty of places are not racist. However spend some time getting to know the place, maybe rent there first?

Could you live in a commuter town (Herts, beds, bucks, surrey, essex) so that your DH could keep his job? It will be more expensive tha the north but still cheaper than London and his salary wont suffer.

Violence/bricks through windows and stuff like that is really unlikely these days. But depending on just how rural you go, you definitely will experience casual/subtle/institutionalised racism and general staring, ignorance, etc.

Personally if I were you I'd look for a happy medium. Somewhere further out but not rural rural. The suburbs of West London/Berkshire, for example.

I think you're very right to consider all those thing. I'm of Asian heritage and live in a naice area. We have great schools and house prices are expensive.

We're in the Midlands and would pay around 550-600k for a nice 4 bed semi and anything from £700k for a detached. When we first moved here there were not many Asians. I'm also from a Northern Mill town and I suppose I had no issues mixing - but I know how to act how to fit in - I suppose I often feel like a chameleon.

Acting in different ways around different people. I'm well educated and widely read. I speak my mother tongue and other languages. I can relate to people from varying educational and economic backgrounds. I'm the child of a first generation immigrant however I'm married into a very wealthy white English family - and I know how to talk all things middle class. Hard to describe.

However because I know how to 'be' I don't stand out but as the area has become more mixed in seeing a definite divide at school of Asian and white mums. And I don't fit really I act as a chameleon to fit into different groups. Have I found my people - well I just spend time with family. I think I am definitely affected by covert racism. I do feel judged at times - and to my regret I start acting more white. This year I've basically thought fuck that and I've got all Asian and I make sure my kids where Asian clothing for events - I'm taking them places and making them see what their mother's heritage is - I've started not giving a shit what people think and started being who I am!!! I couldn't speak English when I started school but then I got a great degree and have a fab career. My parents came here without a penny to their names and built their business up from nothing.

I have a lot to be proud of and there is a big wide world out there and if my kids need to experience racism to understand what this world is then let it fucking be and I'll teach them about colour, about race - about life and they will learn to be kind and tolerant - they will explain their mother's heritage. They will be proud to eat my food - they will understand the journey their grandparents and great grandparents made and they will make sure that those who don't understand will learn their story.

So OP don't be afraid - don't be afraid of being different who cares if you are. You teach your kids to be proud and to learn from life. Cos kids commenting on the colour of skin is only the start of life.

How about Leicestershire?

As I’m sure you’re well aware, OP, Leicester is one of the most diverse cities in Europe. What sets it apart from other similar cities is a large and thriving Asian professional middle class. Leicester is NOT like Bradford.

It’s perfectly normal and unremarkable for those middle-class Asian families to live in the more affluent suburbs of Leicester with good schools, eg Oadby, or in the nice villages in the county, and to blend in very well.

As a white British perspn, I obviously can’t see things from the perspective of Asian people, so please take my comments with that caveat.

I’m Asian and have lived rurally in Warwickshire, Essex, and the Cotswolds
Never had any problems, occasionally ignorant questions though

It actually irritates the hell out of me when people assume that racism is inevitable outside London. It isn't. Of course, there are problems in some areas, but they are not ubiquitous.
Couldnt agree more with this^

GoneForFood half Swedish Iranian husband half Greek ...you are joke.
Olive or fair skin is completely different from Indian skin complexion.
you doubting her Britishness by asking where she REALLY from.

discopisco
You are right to worry, do your homework.
Ask people here.
Be more specific with area,funny enough attitude toward non white changes within less than a mile.

I think some of the posters in here are lucky they've never had to consider feeling like an outsider - its not just overt racism (eg name calling) or ignorant racism (where are you REALLY from) - it's subtle racism that people have to consider moving into majority white areas, eg the pressure of children growing up without role models who look like them, acquaintances who cba to learn a name they haven't heard before, teachers who have low expectations because they presume someone 'different' to them won't aspire to academia.

Op, sorry if this sounds a crass question but if you move, would you be comfortable financially? Having the money to lead an 'equivalent' lifestyle to the people around you removed some of the barriers around race. And I assume would give you the option of travelling for things that were important to you (eg keeping a link to London)

@sheet82 - are you me? lol! Your experiences totally resonate with me. I'm from working class Asian background and have worked very hard to be the professional person I am today. I'm very proud of my heritage but I must admit, as I get older, I just want to 'be' and not have to explain/justify that I'm how I dress, speak, what I eat. I'm as tough as old boots- I just don't want be little one to grow up thinking he's inferior to his classmates based on how much melanin he has in his skin.

I grew up in a tiny hamlet in the south west.
There were no non white children at either my primary or secondary schools. There were no families whose history in the village didn’t stretch back generations. I honestly hadn’t personally met anyone who wasn’t white until I was about 16.

Now there are two Asian families, one black family and a gay couple living in this tiny hamlet of 100 people.

The thing to be aware of is that many rural communities have changed. When I grew up everyone was local. There were about 6 family names. People were racist and didn’t like any outsiders. However other people have bought into the area. Over half the houses in the village are now lived in by people from London. And along with them has come a more tolerant attitude to people who are not white.

To the PP raising the point of rural vs suburbia- it is rural areas I've looked at (I do know the difference, honest!). I've mentioned schools (plural, not school) based on the information listed on Rightmove.

However my sister reports her boys coming home and asking questions such as "why is my skin colour different to Jacob/Joshua/Reece's (made up names)?" and other questions pertaining to ethnicity.

Did it dusturb the kids though or were they genuinely curious about differences.

I’m not in the UK but am in an Anglo country. Ours is a reverse. My kids went to a school that was over 90% Asian, the remainder was mainly Indian with something like 2% Other. My kids are white, they were in the less than 2% category which contained not only Caucasian but anything that didn’t fit the Asian or Indian demographic.

When they first started they would come home and ask exactly this same question as that’s what the other kids asked, and why their eyes looked like that and why their eyes were that colour. None of it was malicious, just a bunch of 6yo’s trying to get their heads around differences. Also a lot of the kids spoke Mandarin as there was no-limited English at home so it made it harder to form friendship groups at the start but kids being kids that quickly changes. No way would we have considered moving schools to an area with a more white demographic as we never saw it as an issue or reacted so that the kids thought it was an issue.

@discopisco there are many sheets and discos out there - we are second and third generation. Brought up as Indian/Pakistani but outside our homes being something else.

I suppose I've given up on trying to fit in I just need to teach my kids resilience. We are in a nice polite area covert racism is still striking but my kids carry a white surname - so they kind of fit BUT I will ensure they understand why too they are different and special and I will teach them about my culture because it's so rich, so beautiful it's exceptional.

@GoneForFood - really glad things worked out for you and your family but put bluntly me and my family would stick out a mile because we look different to you (as in the colour of our skin)- we are very visibly different to the majority Caucasian population and therefore people have already judged based on what they assume people like us to be. The fact that you're half Iranian and Swedish means that you're probably a lot fairer than us and more likely to be mistaken as someone Mediterranean. It's all about colour I'm afraid.

@halfwitpicker - those are the exact areas I'm referring to.

I'm from there too and I haven't lived there for the last ten years. I'd either stay in London or move somewhere else down south tbh.

@HoppingPavlova - some of it is genuine curiosity and I get that but sometimes the little one will come home and tell his mum Jacob said he can't play with him because he looks dirty, that kind of thing. The fact that he looks different leaves him more vulnerable to being picked on?