Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

Why not try the outskirts of North East London/Essex borders like Wanstead/Woodford/Snaresbrook? Diverse/lots of greenery, decent schools, wealthy Asian families and you get more bang for you buck plus they are on central line so easy to get into central London/city.

Why rural? Why not move to a large town/city outside London?

We left London 5 years ago and not looked back. We live in the suburbs of a diverse city with great schools.

There isn’t another city as comfortably diverse as London, even Paris or NY in my opinion. It is a special place, but too expensive for us. It’s a big move, but even as bme family it is the best thing we’ve done.

Don’t move back to your crappy town if it’s still crappy.

I'm in a small town in the NW. I'm white but not British. DH is Indian. Kids are mixed and aged 7,4 and 2. I've not had any experience (neither have kids) of racism. Yes the school is mostly full of white British kids but that usually makes my kids more interesting to others to tbh.
It's a bit worrying that your sisters kids ask those questions at that age i think. I've had those conversations a long time ago with my kids and they haven't wondered this is ages. Because they know why: they are of Asian descent, the other kids are not.

I live in a northern mill town which is pretty diverse. Im 100% sure you could move here and live rurally without any issues. For what youd pay in london for a 2 bed flat youd get a 4/5 bed detached house too!

There is lots of racism in the country. People are completely unaware of it unless they are subjected to it, may be quite subtle but still oppressive. Often you can be accepted if you are prepared to 'integrate' i.e. Behave like and value white people and value British culture above your own traditions, but you will still be noticed and made to feel feel different. If there are more than a few Asian or black families there will be hostility. London is unique for multicultural living but other smaller cities have a good stab at it. African friends of mine moved from Leicester, which they loved, to outskirts of Birmingham and found it really hard going, I don't know if it would be different there for Asian or Caribbean people, wolverhamton has an established Asian community, as does Leeds. Manchester, Nottingham and Bristol are all v mixed, with access to country, though some segregation. I have people in Northampton and Bedford who love the more rural access to countryside but still safety in numbers of more urban schools workplace, also commutable.
Be very wary, rent for a while don't burn your boats, if you are set on moving out. Be wary of brexit areas, poor working class cities that are heavily segregated and run down, and the out of town places nearby where there is 'white flight'. Brighton is great but not cheap, Liverpool fabulous.

Don't do it OP. IME the worst form of r racism isn't the bricks through Windows but the much more subtle but omnipresent undertones. Re integration; again IME that is a very one way street with the new community putting their own expectations into you. They decide if you are doing enough to integrate. If you don't drink, don't go to the pub, not a fan of Tupperware or whatever the latest thing is all means that you aren't trying hard enough, therefore you don't want to integrate.

Don't know if you are a Muslim or not OP but that brings additional problems.

In your favour you say you are a professional, IME if you have a well respected, top end career that gets you extra points and makes life easier. Everyone loves having a world renowned neurosurgeon living beside them.

As a pp points out 'chameleons' have the greatest success but that is soul destroying for your own identity. Your dc will pick up on that and in turn he will see his Asian side as something to be embarrassed/ashamed of.

Candice Braithwaite (who moved from Brixton to MK) did a post recently on how her daughter said to her casually "I like white people more than brown people" and how that really stung her. IME growing up as a minority it has a big impact on who you are and it is a real struggle. I'm encouraging my dc to try for London unis as hopefully that might increase their job chances there. I'm going to retire in Bradford.

I am white, but clearly foreign, strong accent and all (Eastern European).
I had this idea last year of moving to the English countryside, potentially buying a smallholding within say an hour's commute. Rented a place for three months to try it out. Whoa. Enough mentioning a neighbour who made a habit of coming to my door to discuss how much my kids cost him in taxes.
No thanks, I'll stay in the cosmopolitan bubble.

Two of my good friends are ethnic. They still get stared at when going into very rural country pubs. Never thought I would see that in today’s world

Its also sad that because we don't live in london its obviously assumed were all backwards racist knob heads.

"Two of my good friends are ethnic"

I don't think saying someone is 'ethnic' sounds very polite.

flamingo Who has assumed that?

It is obviously a concern. No one is saying 'all people in the countryside are racist.'

Your right to not be offended by someone worrying about racism does not trump the OPs right to be concerned about racism.

Typical 'not all men/countryside dwellers/white people' bs.

I’d your priority is to avoid any sort of racism or innocent questions about skin colour, stay in London. You sound very rigid in your attitudes. To move somewhere else you’d have to be flexible, get involved in the community and be a bit more open minded about schooling etc.

From my experience, (brown asian and wearing a headcovering and long dress)do not move to an area which is near a council house estate or any where schools need improvement.
Ive had outright racism to my face and my children needed psychotherapy for the racism. and in the upper class areas it was
More sophisticated racism, and i needed the psychotherapy.
If you go to an area which has some asians in it you will get some support from others who wont be racist.
Dont expect the local councils to help you or anyone in a government position because they wont. Thats my experience.
I have gone from a being born in this country with a highly professional degree and being highly respected everywhere i went in a multicultural major city, and though that would apply moving to an all white area. But finding i would be treated like the scum of the earth. Even the numerous police officers who attend when i am racially abused dont get it, and can do nothing to protect my children. So move to an area with other asians which are affluent for your childrens sake.
The outskirts of a major city which has country side. Unless you wield a powerful position, where people have to be nice to you, dont expect people to be nice to you.

This unfortunately is my experience. Psychotherapists is not cheap, and its difficult to reverse damage from racists.
My children area have a nervous breakdown when the develop a tan in the summer and refuse to go out because they cannot handle the "brown paki" comments any more.

Personally I think I was lulled into a false sense of security pre Brexit thinking everywhere had got better but the way some of the bigoted have been emboldened post Brexit vote has made me very wary of even visiting some areas let alone moving to them.

I’m mixed raced and my DH is white and even he would be wary of moving to certain places because although nothing would be directed at him, he would worry for me and DC. Even if we weren’t around, he would hate to be in a pub and hear bigoted shit.

I would also value my child’s self esteem over a larger garden to be honest. Why potentially put them in a situation where they will othered if you don’t have to? All that will happen is that they’ll grow to hate the area you’ve moved to and make plans to move to a large city asap (probably London) and then have to pay 60% of their wage in rent becuase their parents sold their London home.

moon it's inflexible to worry about racism????

Jesus. It's one of me and my husband's main concerns when it comes to where we'll move.

Who seriously thinks they'll just move and not even consider the fact that their kid will be called 'slitty eyed' or 'chink' or 'gook' for the next ten years?

Innocent questions? Trust me, those get old fucking quickly and you quickly realise they're not that innocent.

Rounds us there's a sharp divide between the towns, some of which are very diverse - and the villages, all still Midsommer Murders territory.

This! Within a 5-mile radius of where I live in Sussex, there are villages that I wouldn't recommend to anyone from an ethnic minority and villages that wouldn't bat an eyelid and would be very welcoming.

A friend who is part of a mixed-race family has a rule of thumb that if the village shop sells more Guardians than Express/Mail/Telegraph, her family are likely to be accepted.

Well op has assumed that she will encounter racism everywhere outside of London. Many others have agreed.

She can be concerned but i think many of her concerns would probably be unfounded.

I am allowed to be a bit miffed to be considered racist and intolerant because i dont live in the capital.

I live in a mill town and have actually moved to another area in the same town. There are no racism issues here. Its diverse. I know of the places that are quite segregated that op speaks about and i can understand why she wouldn't want to move back, but to assume everyone outside of those areas is intoletant or racist is unfair.

I am sure my street is not nearly grand enough for op, but as an example its somewhere where op could bring up her kids and nobody would even notice the colour of their skin.

I'm white, grew up in a Northern mill town, and I wouldn't move back to one either OP.

However, I'm still in the NW and live in a town where the number of BAME people is growing. It's a great place to bring up DCs, close to Manchester, great transport links, some of the highest performing state primary and secondary schools in the country and excellent private schools if that's what you want.

I can't speak for BAME people and how they feel about living here, apart from anecdotally from friends who are very happy, but there are some areas of the N and NW that might fit your needs really well.

Slightly off topic but I am concerned at the posters commenting that people asking about your religious/ethnic backgrounds etc are considered ignorant surely they are making conversation, trying to learn more about you, so in effect even if rather clumsily trying to welcome you?? I am from rural Cumbria so yes the area is predominantly white but we do have different races living in our town and all are very welcome and are part of the community. In a strange way I think the fact they have chosen to live where they are in the minority has made them more welcome, they bring diversity, a different way of viewing/doing/living which can only be good.

flamingo Point to the post that says everyone is racist.

No racism issues?

Sorry, even in London there are racism issues. So unless you have found some kind of fucking mill town (how that is relevant, I don't know) utopia, I really doubt there are no racism issues.

Almost every person who is Asian/black on this thread has said they have had issues outside London.

OP we lived in London for decades, our dc were brought up there. They went to v expensive schools and have Asian friends. A few years ago we moved 12 miles away. In our v nice road of 8 houses there are three Indian/Asian families. They are lovely.

The only difference between here and London are that the secondary schols are brilliant and there are lots of Asian children at the grammars who either live locally or commute in.

Hi OP I know those areas well as from the same area. I don’t think racism is a big issue and certainly Clitheroe Grammar is a good school. Whalley has suddenly become a bit of a nightspot with some nice bars and restaurants and with the rail link to Manchester it’s very easy to get from this area into the city for culture ans shopping. Ribble Valley property is a lot cheaper than London!

royston because it gets tiring being treated as 'Muslim/Chinese/Pakistani/whatever' and not as a person.

Questions about race/religion are best left to actual friends, not random strangers.

I have the same problem when I visit Korea. I'm treated as a white person, not as me. It's always 'can you eat kim chi/do you know kpop/omg you can say hello in Korean that's amazing' not like 'what are your hobbies' or 'what did you do last night' like they'd ask anyone else.

It's draining.

And in interms of integration, i tried to ferl the whole street every time i cooked and everybody loved my cooking, spicy meats and a million different styles of cooking. but did they want me living next to them in thr rural bliss, NO.

hisaishi ok well you've pretty much just said it havent you?

Ok well whatever youre clearly right and im wrong and because im white i clearly know fuck all and cannot comment on racism issues in my own area even though i live here anf experience life here every single day.

My son goes to nursery with children from many different backgrounds. His school will be the same.

There are places in my "utopia" that no i wouldnt reccomend and even i wouldnt live in. Doesnt mean there arent diverse areas op could live in with no issues.

Maybe your problem is not your race but your superiority complex.