Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

But no racism as far as I can see. Most racist comments are about Polish.

But making racist comments is racism.

@Antigon I wouldn't waste your time. It's easier to assume someone has a chip on their shoulder, than to believe they simply have a different life experience to you.

I'm sure I've done that myself, but here, it's easier to agree to disagree, as some people don't want to see or hear about a lived experience different to their own. And that's okay.

Sorry I'm a bit late to the party. I'm from a rural town deep in the Devon countryside. I would welcome you all with open arms. We desperately need diversity. The only thing u may struggle with are exotic food/spices ect but that's what day trips to Exeter are for.

Can you not move to a London suburb?

But no racism as far as I can see.
You are white british. I suspect you wouldn’t notice casual racism or little remarks. Or whether those people are actually excluded or included in the community.
If you want to know if there is racism, you need to ask THEM.

TBH, I would be pretty wary about telling a white person there is racism in their idyllic village. In my experience, these things go one of the following ways, in order of likelihood:

1. Denial: Demands to hear every detail, then tells me I must be misinterpreting every single incident.

2. Anger. The above, but with added blame: so you must have done something.

3. Embarassment/grief: A lot better than the above two, but I still end up being responsible for making them feel better about it. If I don't display the right positive attitude, may veer into 2 or 1.

Occasionally:
4) Sympathy. They hear me, tell me they are sorry that happened. Offer to do something, but accept if I say no. They may make efforts to educate themselves without asking me to do it all for them.

People are often less open than they believe they are to hearing criticism of something/someone they love. (Especially not if they harbour underlying subconscious feelings that BAME should be properly grateful, which sometimes happens.) There is always a risk of making an enemy for life.

Exactly cucumbergin.

And the number of people who feel able to warble on about the lovely inclusivity if their area, village, school, private school on behalf of people whose experience they do not share proves your point.

Apologies to those of you who are irked that my “lived experience” was overwhelmingly positive and therefore doesn’t suit your own prejudices that the countryside is racist. Of course I had a privileged childhood but it’s worth pointing out that it’s also the one which is most closely going to mirror the Disco children’s experience of the country.

I’m not denying that racism exists. But it exists everywhere (and some of the most conspicuous acts of racism and exclusion I’ve experienced have been in Gujurati areas of London because they don’t like me being with my WB husband or because I speak an obscure NE Indian language and not their own). But you’re going to have a much happier existence if you don’t interpret every thoughtless or ignorant remark to malice. Especially in small, sparsely populated places where life is insular and neighbours of all colours can feel intrusive.

Finally, please share what “gossip” there is to be had in someone choosing to wear a sari to a work do - it’s an item of clothing, not an admission of a workplace affair 😂

I’m black and my husband is Japanese, and we have lived in a few different areas in the U.K. - towns, villages and cities, and the only place I have experienced direct racism against me and my family is in London. I’m not saying that there is not casual racism/bias in rural areas because I can’t speak for everyone, but in my personal experience I feel more comfortable and accepted in the 800 person village where we live now.

Apologies to those of you who are irked that my “lived experience” was overwhelmingly positive and therefore doesn’t suit your own prejudices that the countryside is racist.

No one is irked chumsnet. It's just that you made a pretty broad statement with 'You really don’t need to act white or British - whatever that may mean - to be accepted.' That's just your experience. I have some examples above which I see you ignored.

I’ve lived and worked around the NE in big predominantly white ex-mining towns and seen loads of racism. I hate it. It wasn’t so bad in a university city in the NE. Avoid ex-pit areas is my suggestion.

@chumsnet
I just don't understand why when a person says there could be a problem, they have an attitude, but when you say there is no problem, it's a 'lived experience'.

Rather convenient to your argument to dismiss others' lived experiences. You don't respond to any examples then fake apology to have the last word.

I mean thinking about it, maybe what you experienced in London wasn't racism but rather your attitude towards the community that you thought wouldn't appreciate your mixed relationship. Assuming that they actually cared one way another or had any malice toward you both.

MyBrexitIsIll - i imagine that i am called the French one when people don't know my name. Otherwise they use my name. But would revert to 'French one' if the other person was confused :) or 'the one with the Indian husband'.. Or 'the one with that kid won't shut up' (joke). It doesn't bother me.
The new reverend was shaking my hand one day after Church, as soon as I'd opened my mouth he was like 'oh! You're the French lady!'! A bit irritating that i can't hide my accent but it is what it is and i laughed it off.
I am sure racism does occur. Just saying that sometimes not focusing on small comments may be worth it as a lot of the time people are just curious or clumsy rather than malicious or intentionally hurtful. Racism is also born out of fear and misunderstanding.
That's just my thoughts. My husbands family didn't like me at all at first because i am white. It wasn't great but i tried to disregard it and carried on with the relationship and they have moved on and realised that it didn't matter. I could have taken offence and gone completely NC. Indeed the same happened with my husband and some of my family. It's just a thought. Not negating other people's negative experience at all and hoping i can continue living a relatively peaceful life in friendly (for us) Cheshire.

I work in an area of Pendle which includes Nelson and surrounding areas and while I don't know much about the smaller villages, I know there are quite a lot of Asian families in Barrowford, many of those with young children.

I'd suggest coming up for an extended visit and spend a few days in and around the surrounding area. Talk to a few of the locals in the places you're thinking of living, see what kind of a feeling you get from them. I'd still consider keeping the London flat as an investment if you can afford it though

I don't care what someone looks like. It's how they behave that's important. As long as you try to fit in with your new community, then there's no limits

To give a little perspective, my DD is 2.5 and we live in a predominantly white area outside of London. She hasn't met many people with a different skin colour but when she does now she will sometimes comment in the same way she comments on other things. Young children are very 'say what you see'. We are most certainly not racist in any way in fact I'm second generation English myself it just so happens that my foreign grandparents were white.

Her comments are innocent, she is a small child. She might say (for example) 'Megan has yellow hair' or 'Jason has brown skin' and when she does I explain that we are all different and it's not polite to comment on people's appearance. It's not racist to simply observe a difference. I can honestly hand on heart say in our area at least treating someone differently or unfavourably because of their race (the definition of racism) doesn't happen any more here than it would in London or anywhere else. There are racist people in London too you know!

Your problem isn't with area. It's with individuals. By all means be concerned about racism from individuals and deal with it (not that you should have to) but don't write off anywhere that isn't London because of it. That's just daft and completely narrow minded.

As long as you try to fit in with your new community, then there's no limits

I agree that this is probably true. That's why immigrants in Hertfordshire are more British than the British. But why should you have to do this?

It's not racist to simply observe a difference. I can honestly hand on heart say in our area at least treating someone differently or unfavourably because of their race (the definition of racism) doesn't happen any more here than it would in London or anywhere else.

You really can't know this. You really can't speak for minorities.

It's how they behave that's important. As long as you try to fit in with your new community, then there's no limits

Except that many people on this thread have said this is not the case everywhere....

It's not racist to simply observe a difference. I can honestly hand on heart say in our area at least treating someone differently or unfavourably because of their race (the definition of racism) doesn't happen any more here than it would in London or anywhere else.

If this thread has shown one thing it’s how varied England is.
It’s very clear that London is apart from other places re racism. And that some areas, esp the ones the OP was looking at, have some casual racism ingrained.
So it might be that in your area, racism isn’t ride. But you can’t say that this is the case for EVERY areas in the U.K. Unfortunately.

As a Lancashire Lass myself, I can confirm that racism is a two way street between the whites & Asians in the northern towns mentioned.

Hi

If we had to choose between Darrick wood in Orpington or midfield or Edgebury Primary school in Chislehurst . Which one should I go for.
Looking to move closer to these schools .help please

Haven't rtft, but op you speak of not wanting to have to worry about fitting in. I can barely say it without sounding racist, but this is why people get fed up of incoming communities who will not integrate. Of course you (meaning one) need to worry about fitting in wherever you go. In decent places that will mean adhering to the law of the land, and accepting equality yourselves as well as asking for it.

There is racism in some places. Somehow we all need to build bridges. Check out the particular area you are interested in, and see.

Flowerpot did you deliberately search for posts to reanimate to accuse brown people of racism?!

Ffs