Can we as an Asian family move to a rural area?

[discopisco]

Just that really. We're currently living in London and are both of Indian parentage. DH has been grumbling about hating the rat race for a while now but I've ignored him (I'm from a small mill town from the north and couldn't wait to get out of there). However, we've just had our first baby and I feel like we're already outgrowing our 2 bed flat. To buy a bigger place in our current area isn't financially possible now or in the near future just on DH's salary. So, I've been looking at property prices where we'd want to move to (close but not too close to where I grew up) and we'd be able to afford a very big house there. However, my worry is racism. I grew up somewhere where there was a very clear white vs Asian divide which resulted in subsequent riots. Would we be mad to move to the rural outskirts of those areas? I love London- despite its many failings- and don't want to be isolated location wise if we were to move or have bricks thrown into our windows, be ostracised in the local area and our child bullied at school. Are my worries justified or am I being paranoid?

There are lots of pros of moving:

Family links
Familiarity
Lots of house for our money
Greenery

Cons:

Potential (most definite?) racism
Crappy schools (we'd probably have to go private)
Potential drop in DHs salary
Missing out on London life and all it has to offer

Would it be worth moving considering the above? Or should we stay out?

Part of me says to keep hold of our flat as once we move out of London we'd never be able to afford to move back but the other half says to go and live our life as best as we can while we can. Would appreciate any help, advice, guidance!

@halfwitpicker - I've been in London for the past decade and feel like I've 'grown' into my own person instead of following the crowds. The areas I was looking at were the villages of Higham, Fence, Barrowford, Roughlee, Clitheroe, etc. I'm assuming they're no go?

@HoppingPavlova
Your situation puts you in a privileged position it’s not the same as OPs

@sheet82 - I'd love to have a chat- I've got a feeling we'd get on. I've kind of rebelled by giving my little one a traditional name, speaking to him in my mother tongue and introducing traditional foods in his diet. We've got a very rich heritage and I'm not ashamed of that. I've had to face a lot of adversity for being so visibly different- I don't want my child to go through that. However, I'm in a dilemma because I want him to grow up in a bigger house and around nature.

I am asian and totally get what the OP is saying and also what a previous poster said about feeling like a chameleon. I spent my twenties and part of my thirties trying to be as white as I could. Then I had children and I do not want them to play this messed up game that I used to play, just to fit in.

I want my children to be accepted for who they are and not for trying to be something that they are not - I spent too long trying to be something I am not and I did it very well. it is tedious though. It was just to show white people, that not all asians are the stereotypical blah blah blah. I don’t want to do that anymore. Now I embrace my heritage and take the best of both worlds. I am not embarassed when I wear asian outfits, I am not embarassed to take my own cooking as a packed lunch to work.
I want my DC to be confident and be proud of their heritage and not like me who spent too much time trying to cast off my culture because it made the white folk around me more comfortable watching me assimilate.

The areas I was looking at were the villages of Higham, Fence, Barrowford, Roughlee, Clitheroe, etc. I'm assuming they're no go?

^^

These are all beautiful rural Lancashire villages. Say your kids go to Clitheroe Royal Grammar - all well and dandy. But you still have to go shopping, socialise, restaurants, etc. I'd find it a massive adjustment to be honest. And quite frankly I think your kids would have the shock of their lives compared to London. I think that they would experience racism there that wouldn't experience in London.

We have 3-4 Asian families living in our village. They’re treated with the same respect as everyone else, because they behave like everyone else. In my experience problems arise when a family refuses to integrate - they avoid speaking English, kids aren’t allowed to play with local kids, Mum and Dad aren’t friendly and don’t mix with anyone, etc. Or if there are a number of similar families they group together as “us” and “them”. When people position themselves as “others” that’s when people become resentful and racist.

OP, what is your budget and what do you need in way of a house? That will give us an idea of where you can move to rural/ suburbs.
I would not move rural and be in a minority.

@Threadastaire (love your username!)- you're spot on re: lower expectations from teachers and even the wider community overall. The amount of times I was asked growing up if I was going to have an arranged marriage/marry a cousin, etc. Is shocking.

We'd be okay financially.

Racism is born of making sweeping generalisations about people based on the colour of their skin. You are making sweeping generalisations about places that aren’t London - your expression “crappy schools” is an absolute insult to anyone who works in a non London school. Something for you to think about, perhaps.

You might want to read the full thread before getting your knickers in s twist @KumquatQuince - I've already qualified the crappy schools thing and stand by it.

I'm saddened that you have to consider this, but I would say if you can spend some time in the area you are looking at before you make a move I would. I am white and in a semi-rural village (hour from london but had did get stuck behind escaped sheep today). My village is mostly white, but a few BME families have moved in, I've not heard anyone I know ever mention racism and they have lived here for some time so are presumably happy. There is very much a us and them divide here between those who were born here and can trace their family back more than 3 generations and those coming to the village and 'changing things and pushing property prices up'

All those people getting upset at schools outside London not being up to scratch, London has got some of the best state school results in the country. They are much better funded than schools in many rural areas. I would say that near me OFSTED ratings say more about the catchment area of the school than the quality of teaching in the school. My kids are in a school that is judged 'outstanding' and they have a high turnover of very young teachers, it's okay but not brilliant at all. I teach in a 'good' school which is fantastic.

Op I have a reasonable knowledge of the areas you're looking at, and I think racism is less of an issue in some of those areas - BUT segregation/division is an issue. What I mean by that is there are large well established Asian communities, as I'm sure you'll know if you have family nearby, so your family are unlikely to stand out or be visibly different. However the communities in those areas tend to be relatively conservative, and not very integrated eg I visit schools in those areas and schools ten mins drive apart will be 80% asian or 80% white. Personally as a white person used to big cities looking at those areas I'd feel a bit apprehensive about them feeling less cosmopolitan and that's without having a worry about racism.
Would it be worth looking at place closer to Manchester or Leeds so you could still keep some of the city vibe?

@LewisMam
Behave like everyone else?
Do you mean denying your culture...

I can only post from the other side of the coin as it were.

Live in a rural village populated by white middle class professionals.

A BAME family moved to the village about 5 years ago. Nobody batted an eyelid.

Kids were absorbed as usual into the local school/playgroup/play date scene (my DS is best friends with one of the children) and through that social links with parents also followed - same as with anyone moving to a new community.

Since then there's been more BAME families (though still a minority) who've moved to the village and tbh the place is the better for it.

It's good to see diversity in the local community and I'll admit (as a keen cook) that I've been the recipient of some fabulous family recipes and also shared some of my family favourites return :-)

Is this the full picture? I'm sure not. I sadly wouldn't be surprised if my friends and other BAME family's I'm not close to locally have experienced racism and not disclosed it, but would say that my perception of the experience on the flip side (as my friends have commented to me) is that the vast majority of the local community would be as welcoming as they would be to anyone new to the community regardless of ethnicity/religion etc. which is how it should be.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that because a village is predominantly white, it doesn't follow that you'll experience racism there or fail to be accepted into the local community.

@discopisco a lot of people move from London to get more space, the area I live in is full of ex Londoners, and people from all over the globe. Love it, London without the price tag. Good schools and good communities. There are a lot of places like this, you can make the move out of London, but you don't need to choose a dump to move to.

Is there pressure on you to go to that particular area? Or can you choose/look at better options?

Just before anyone jumps on it btw, integration is a two way thing - not suggesting people who've moved here have a duty to integrate, in the areas you've referred to my experience is that local (mainly white) people and immigrant communities have got along ok but been happy to live side by side but separate, in quite traditional ways. Those who wanted to change things up moved away to the big cities. For me, moving back up that way would feel like moving back to the 1980s, fun for a day trip but not where I personally would want to live!

Hi OP

I haven't read the thread but wanted to answer your question based on my experience.

We left London and moved to a nice part of the home counties to have children. After 4 years we came back to London. My husband and I are both of South Asian heritage.

My advice is to not do it. If you really want to then chose your area very carefully. Maybe rent for a few years and definitely don't sell your flat in case you want to come back like we did.

Reasons why we left. Well it took us 4 years to realise it but we were experiencing racism in the most under handed way. I have heard the term unconscious bias being used and this also describes it. I could list lots of examples but it is quite depressing for me to start going into that level of detail. I also grew up out of London in a white area and was one of 5 Asian kids in my school. I could see my children having the same experience and whilst it isn't the worst, personally I was always accutely aware of how different I was to everyone else. I remember coming home and crying why I didn't have a more mainstream name and why couldn't we have cottage pie for dinner like everyone else.

My husband and I decided that a smaller flat in London with regular exposure to all its benefits would be better for our children than a bigger house in the home counties. We go to so many galleries and museums and so many things are free here too. Most importantly they are growing up colour blind.

Feel free to PM me if you have any questions. But seriously, don't do it. Maybe another part of London?

Good luck with whatever you decide.

A quick look tells me the primary schools in barrowford are good and outstanding . Sabden and higham are good. As is wheatley lane.

Sorry just realised I was looking at where halfwitpicker mentioned for locations not the OP!

Rounds us there's a sharp divide between the towns, some of which are very diverse - and the villages, all still Midsommer Murders territory. There was only one Asian family in the village l grew up in! That number hasn't really changed at all today. I'd think hard about leaving London for a properly rural life if you don't want to stand out. Sorry ... London's got lots going for it though, l wish l still lived there!

It saddens me to read that in Britain in 2018 someone is cautious to move due to fears of racism. This is like reading a post from decades ago :(. Very sad.

I have spent a long time in a very rural community and there were a few Asian families living there. I knew a few of these families personally and they appeared very happy and never spoke of any racism. I also never heard anyone express any racism towards these families. To echo what another poster has written, I think regardless of your race, if someone integrates into the community, it makes it easier but I understand your concerns as I had the same worries when I moved to an Asian area of a big city. A lot more needs to be done in this country to increase social cohesion between the many different races and cultures that exist within our communities. Hopefully then, people like the OP and her family will be less anxious about moving to other less diverse areas. I hope all goes well for you OP, whatever you decide.

Does your DH want to commute /continue working in London OP? If communting to West side or central, , come to South Hampshire ! Easy commute via train. Or just work in a local city. (PM me if you want to know specific areas I'm talking about! )

Houses are 1/3 price here at least of most London areas. We have residential areas, big towns nearby with rural feel & plenty of countryside. We have 6 secondary (state) schools nearby, 5 are outstanding one is requires improvement and nearly all the primary schools are good or outstanding. No need for private schools... infact my N, W & S London friends are jealous at the great choices we have compared to them! And how little crime we have here.

Whilst it is majority white area as most non city areas are, it is mixed still, we have significant BME population and very little racism. Omg - a brick through window would make headline news and be jumped upon!! And your neighbours would be out in arms about anyone targeting you!!

We're mixed race family ourselves, but there are plenty of different Asian ( by which I'm referring to Muslim, Hindu etc.. as too many ethnicities to include!) communities down here, a large Polish community (many settled from WWII but many more East European recently), African/Carribean, etc

If you want to go further afield have you considered Bristol which is very multicultural too?

Don't let rumour about "life outside London" put you off , as unless you're going to tiny villages then- if you do your research and recky a few places/ask around,- you'll find the gorgeous areas to make you want to move!!! Areas outside cities with more white people doesnt = racism, it only results in that when those communities are ignorant and not welcoming.