The whole shit show can hardly be blamed on Theresa May can it

[dawnacorns]

I'm hardly her number one fan but I can't see how getting rid of her is the answer. They just don't seem to know what they're doing. It's an absolute mess whichever way you look at it.

I think there are intelligent MPs who have not created personality cults around themselves and who quietly get on with things in both the Conservatives and Labour - lying low while the current political leaders make themselves the objects of ridicule.

I have been quite impressed by the way Dominic Raab stepped into the breach in recent months, so the fact that he has rejected this deal shows how bad it is. I think, fundamentally, it is not possible to negotiate with the EU. Any organisation that bans you from making arrangements for your future until after you have left is morally corrupt. It is like your employer banning you from job hunting in your free time until after your employment with them has ended, knowing full well it can take months to get a job and that you will still have your bills to pay and kids to feed. It is an unfair contract term. If we are leaving, we should remain fully in the EU until we have negotiated future trade arrangements with both the EU and non EU countries, but that there should be a timeframe within which to do that.

Such naivety on this thread. Perhaps you ought to enlighten us then silentIsla?

Totally agree. No one else wanted to sort this mess out, no one else has offered any decent ideas apart from a lot of political posturing and career furthering. I'm absolutely against leaving Europe but I understand her commitment to delivering on what the majority of people voted for, and I admire her for getting in there every day and dealing with the shit show. If any other one of these braying idiots wants to offer an ACTUAL plan, good luck to them.

It’s David Cameron’s fault, he should never of let a Brexit vote happen, he did it for political reasons rather than what was best for the whole country including Ireland and Scotland.

Frankly, and I have met her, I think she has a very difficult job to do, and I don't think many could have done anything any better, which is why Mr Cameron copped out, Boris Johnson failed to step up etc.

I do think her 'mistake' along with Cameron was to assume a done deal with the referendum. They were too complacent and assumed a win. Instead they should have been asking more & stronger questions to make the voting public think carefully: How will a Brexit happen? What is the mechanism, what will our obligations to the Eu be if we do leave? Will industry be worse or better off and why? What will happen if we want to go on holiday to Europe after Brexit? How will the exchange rate differ? How can you assure us this is how it will actually happen if we do leave? Etc.

Remain was sold as the EU will get better - it'll be a land of milk and honey.

She should stick her two fingers up to them all. There is no way she is to blame. Another scapegoat to be had.
I admire her strength.

I have to admire her strength of character, but she’ll be gone by the weekend.

I don't recall Remain being 'sold' as that cdtaylornats I just thought of it as stay in the EU and negotiate from within it, as we had always done.

I personally think this is the main reason why Cameron chose to pack his suitcase and get out soon after the referendum. Nobody wants to be the unpopular PM.

Too late.

I think he got out of town because he was afraid he might get lynched. Literally or figuratively.

I also agree Cameron is to blame. He should never have promised a referendum and then let it go ahead.

However I also hold people like Boris and Corbyn responsible. Because they didn't get behind it and try to make the best happen for the country, they used it to make it as hard as possible and sold the uk out for their own political gain.

If everyone had worked together from the start, there is a likely hood the country wouldn be in the position it is and facing th risks it is

Whoever we get next, if she does go, is somebody who wasn't willing to step up at the time and we should question why that was.

I think most of us would have done this by now. Dislike her. Admire her steeliness.

I'm with you all the way, OP.
She holds the cards she was dealt and can only do the best she can with what she's got... and there is no 'best'.
Even she knows it's shit.

It amazes me how Cameron, Osborne et al have somehow escaped the blame for the effects of their austerity policies and the disaster that is brexit. I am no fan of May either but she seems to be taking all the blame. What is their secret these men? They do dreadful things and emerge unscathed again and again. I guess it's because they're essentially living in a society run by their mates. I will hate them until the day I die for what they've done.

It was a democratic vote and remainer MPs, Cabinet Ministers and other politicians should have supported the Brexit process. No point in living in a democracy otherwise.

I'm not sure how all this stuff works, but surely it cannot only be the PM Teresa May that's sat over in Brussels battering out a deal? or is it ? does sh go there with a Team of specialists that can deal with specific areas etc, I really can't figure out how it works and how she alone has reached these agreements. She's not done all this alone has she?

Corbyn is as pro-Brexit as it is possible to be, so of course he hasn't done anything to stop this process.

I think she's been dealt the ultimate losing hand, and is doing her best with the horrible options available. Certainly she is not the problem here. The idiots who voted for Brexit (which she did not support) are the only ones I can really blame for dropping us all in the shit.

Nope, it was David Cameron and Boris Johnson's fault! I mean Theresa May is still evil but there are worse Tories!

I'm a bit scared that might end up with Jacob Rees-Mogg as prime minister!

I absolutely despise this government, McVey in particular, I have actual hate for her, but I actually have sympathy for Teresa May in this situation. I'd far rather go with this deal or no Brexit (as she mooted last night) than crash out. No way would I want Lord Snooty (who has morals unless he can male money) or BoJo the ape as PM.

She’s been set up.

I’m no fan, but I hope she digs her heels in and stays. I have little trust in the Tory government but I think she’s the closest thing we have to a minister with a grain of integrity.

The whole thing is a fucking shit show. Entirely of Cameron’s doing.

Personally I think May has been dealt a poison challace that she knew would never work - she was never going to get a better deal than we had. She's managed to string it out to the end so that her deal is as similar as what we had to minimise disruption but also leave no time for hardliners to really do much else (not that they ever had a plan for anything workable) or it will be crashing out. She's made it clear she doesn't want to do that, so anyone who backs that should get the full brunt if we end up not doing May's deal.

Personally I think when Leave won they should have got Boris, Davis, Fox, Farage, Gove and Rees Mogg to fight it out for leadership. Let them dig their own poxy hole and not allow any resignations until after the leave date. I want the shit stirrers to be held fully accountable.

Yes, Labour was excessively passive througout. They realise of course if they win the next GE they are in the shit as that is when the leave voters will start to feel the pinch (esp if we crash out because they oppose the best deal we are going to get out of EU). They haven't been very proactive or thought long term at all.

Feel very sorry for the Libs who seem to have said all the right things but just get shot down for going into coalition with the tories whenever they try to do the right thing.

She didn’t have to trigger article 50 so quickly.

However nobody else has ever seemed to have a better alternative plan up their sleeve. Corbyn was also gung ho about triggering article 50.