Am I or is DH?

[TootingBoots]

We are in a financially shit position. I didn’t get paid in September and he is out of work at the moment with poor mental health. We have 2DC.

We are £1000 into a £1500 overdraft and I’m scared we are going to go over that limit. He has about £700 in savings as he wants to buy something related to his hobby. It has taken him a long time to save this money.

My argument is if we use the £700 to pay off most of the overdraft it would help me sleep at night and stop some of the daily charges. We could then pay him back when we can afford it. I know it sucks to see the money you’ve saved go up in smoke but family finances come before personal.

His argument- he will pay it if we do go to the limit of the planned overdraft. Before then he doesn’t need to. He’s saved for a long time and I’ve had a similar amount of money in my personal account I’ve just spent it rather than saved so can’t contribute to paying this debt off. It wouldn’t be fair to now ask him to do so.

Who’s right? We just keep going in circles with this and I can’t help but find his attitude incredibly selfish.

1. Has he been to GP? You're not clear on this. You say nothing has worked - what does that mean? Has he tried different anti-depressants, had talking therapies etc? Is he fit to work or signed off sick?

1. Go through your finances and cut back as much as possible. Consider selling some stuff via boot fair or ebay etc.

1. Remember this isn't forever, it's just for now until your DH is fit to work

No one needs to spend £700 to cheer themselves up.

He'd be pretty depressed if your electricity got cut off.

He’s tried i all - talking therapies, various antidepressants at various doses. This has been a long term problem that has got steadily worse and worse. He’s suffered for 8 years. He is in touch with GP. If I’m honest I don’t see this ever getting to better. (I don’t ever and would never say that to DH).

Its hard for any of us to gauge how bad his depression is. Some people with depression are able to work; some people cannot. It all depends on the individual and how the depression manifests itself. If it's down to work as you've said @TootingBoots, then he needs to get support so he can address this with a view of getting back into work. Staying off work for the rest of his life isn't going to help the situation with regards to finances.

(Could he turn his hobby into a business?)

@TootingBoots a lot of his depression comes from feeling unfulfilled.

That is something that can be addressed with therapy as that's a thought process he has developed. Has he had psychotherapy?

That on top of the £700 just makes me see him as selfish. Or is it the illness?

IME it can be really difficult to tell. My dad and I both have depression. I watch him depend on my mum for everything. In fact my dad sounds a bit like your DH - he wants to be recognised for his creative talent and the fact that he isn't (and I suspect other things too) makes him depressed.. So my mum earns the money because my dad can't because, well none of us are really sure.

I also have depression but don't have a DP to lean on so just have to get on with it. I think depression can make you quite selfish. Would he perhaps find that doing a part time job, however shitty, would help him? or is he too ill for that?

It's not your fault love and you can't be responsible for his happiness. I think if he is intent on spending his savings on his hobby he needs to show willing and get a part time job. He needs to try something - anything - just to get back into the habit of working.

Look i am not doubting this guy is depressed but if he was that depressed, he would be too apathetic to be arsed with spending £700 on a hobby - if, that is, he could be bothered with a hobby at all.

I just feel trapped by the whole situation, I’m looking into interest free credit cards now. So getting into more debt.
And if this continues and I ever want to leave (which I don’t because I absolutely love and adore him).

1. How can you do that to someone so unwell you could really see themselves turning to self harm or worse?
2. If he’s at home with the kids and I leave then he will get main residence of them or whatever it’s called and I will see them even less.
3. I can’t imagine my life without him in it.

Keeping a roof over your heads and food on the table is a family priority not hobbies. He has to see that surely? Being down £200 a month in unsustainable and I'd be frightened that you are at risk of losing your home.

If he wants the £700 for his hobby then he needs to find work, simply put he can't afford his hobby right now. If he can't see that he's being unreasonable and selfish. The money can be replaced as the next priority after the families finances are back on track

Is there a chance the £700 is gone OP?

No it’s still there I saw the statement a few days ago. He’s not even spending it on his hobby yet he’s “saving” (even though we can’t afford more money to go in the pot) until he has enough money to afford the ridiculously expensive item. (Musical instrument).

He needs to back to his GP, I know you feel like he s tried everything, it took an age before my mum found a way to cope with her depression, but now she's like a different person.

It's a hard one. Hobbies, especially ones that involve exercise can really help with mental health.

Have you considered contacting an organisation like CAP (Christians against poverty). I know you might not be religious,but it honestly doesn't matter. They are qualified accountants and financial advisers who give up their time to help people. They don't preach or try to to covert you or anything, they just want to help, and they're free.

I think if you and your husband sat down with someone impartial, and opened your finances up to them they could help.
At the very least it might be a wake up call to hear a qualified professional say "you will lose you house/have your electricity cut off/have very little money for food in X amount of months". They might be able to get something set up to make your finances work.

I hope you get something sorted OP. As I said my mum had very severe MH issues at one stage, it was scary and frustrating.

Food, rent/mortgage ,utilities, in that order.Don't let him blame his illness on wanting to make a reckless purchase that only he will gain from.

You are both being reasonable and unreasonable at the same time. Nobody is 100% right or wrong in this whole situation.

For your side, you have a financial crisis in the family, and it needs all hands on deck, right now.

For his side, you had the same money as he did, and spent it all on... stuff... he, on the other hand, has saved for a long time, to spend on a hobby that is probably creative, and one of the reasons for him to get out of bed in the morning, which is already something he struggles with given his mental health. So it's not just "hobby" it's actually "wellbeing" as well.

I would suggest that he puts his money in now, and you both hold it as sacrosanct that when things pick up you'll help him save up again with your "pleasure" money. Seems like the best all-round solution.

Make a spreadsheet and present him with the facts.

If the hobby that "helps" him is a musical instrument he hasn't bought yet, how can it be helping him currently?

For all the posters asking whether you spent your money on frivolities, what does it matter? You could have spent it on bum implants and champagne, that still wouldn't change the fact that you HAVE to use that £700 to pay off bills. It may feel unfair to your dh but if he's not bringing in any income what else are you supposed to do?

Have you spoken to your bank? You seem to be just accepting the charges when often if you talk to them and explain the circumstances they can suggest ways of helping - eg freezing interest, stopping charges, even just switching you to an account with lower or no overdraft charges. Or even a personal loan. An overdraft is one of the most expensive and hardest types of debt to manage.

Secondly if you're in England/Wales I recommend speaking to mind. They're very good ok advising on dealing with the financial impact of being mentally ill.

Martin Lewis is also campaigning and working on getting people who are mentally ill treated better by financial concerns. Plus if you go on mse site there's loads of advice. From basic budgeting and money saving to more specific advice relating to your particular circumstances. It does sound like you went straight to using savings rather than reducing outgoings.

You could even post a new thread here outlining income and outgoings and asking for suggestions for money saving. There's lots of us on mn on tight budgets that know ways to save.

He may also find discounts/deals on his hobby item - though I agree NEEDS come before WANTS. Shelter, food, clothes, utility bills all take priority.

Are you SURE you're getting all you're eligible for? Have you checked on benefits calculators? Spoken to welfare advisors? Even hcps can put you in touch with advisors on this. My Cmht has an in residence advisor on such matters.

It's unfortunately common for claims based on mental illness to be rejected initially, but many are overturned on appeal. I had to do this.

"I want him to return to work, even just a day or two a week but he feels like he can’t. We are receiving all benefits we are entitled to. Treatment hasn’t helped. At all."

So ESA, pip, housing benefit, council tax rebate or equivalents?

What treatment has he had/tried and over what time scale? Has he seen a psychiatrist? Does he have a proper dx? Or has he ONLY seen GP and psychologist?

"I’m not being paid in September due to time off for caring responsibilities, unfortunately I’m not entitled it so can’t argue for it."

"If he can keep going to/ attending his hobby then he should be able to go back to work" lovely bit of mentally ill shaming there!

Jesus! Believitornot - So basically he should "just pull himself together"? You wouldn't be saying similar if it were a physical illness/injury!

SO MANY myths and misunderstanding on this thread about mental illness generally and depression in particular.

What work was he doing? What are his qualifications/experience? We might be able to suggest something that suits?

You need to work out a budget that is manageable. Work it out together. £x (your wages plus any benefits you're eligible to) less £x (monthly costs). If there is a shortfall, you decide together where you are going to find it from.
Use moneysavingexpert.com who have some really good calculators.
It's no good firefighting this month. You have to assume he will not be bringing in any money and budget accordingly.
It sounds as though there is a regular shortfall each month, so you need to make some hard decisions together. If he sees it in black and white, he will see that stark choices you both face.

“In touch” with a GP doesn’t sound like he’s actively being treated.

He needs to get better - and he’ll need to fully engage in whatever it takes.

When was he formally diagnosed and what was the proposed treatment? Was there a trigger?

Have you reduced costs as much as possible? That’s the only other way to make any financial adjustments in your favour if you can’t increase income. Unless you are working in the financial field and you’ve got that crap nailed down tight- it might be worth using any spare time - Over on money saving expert and the like. Is he cooking from scratch ? Are you vigilant on electricity usage, on the best utility tariffs etc ? It might be worth taking a half day and spending the afternoon and evening going through your financial affairs. Use a bank review if you can see your direct debits etc and stop any that are not essential. When there was the prospect of our income being drastically reduced I had a slash and burn approach to finance - if it wasn’t a need it was on the ‘shit list’ things like sky tv, magazine subs, etc I found lots of rumbling expenses and culled the mobile phones to SIM DEALS.. Do you shop on comparison sites for insurances ? It never hurts to audit your finances regularly anyway. Our prospective reduction never happened, but I had a ‘cunning plan’ in place if it did.

I would be underwhelmed by withholding the available cash. Hobby purchase - people and your house first. It makes no sense to incur charges that wipe out any saving gain. Rather than an an ethical discussion about what he regards as his fun money ... if you wrote in black and white what will happen would he be better able to see it ? Rather than denying what he doesn’t want to deal with ? You need to have a firm hand on your finances now to ensure future stability. Bonne Chance ! gin] and an unmumsnetty hug for you.

Could you look at disability benefits for him with being so unwell

The GP has upped his dossage to 40mg and he’s waiting for counselling. There is a long wait after being referred and you get 6 sessions. In the past we have paid for all kinds of therapy with no change. We get benefits, but there is still a shortfall. We need to look more at reducing our outgoings. I’ve not been good enough at strict budgeting.

He is BU.
But because of his depression etc maybe he can't see it. It doesn't seem like you are able to work together and do whats best for the whole family. It's irrelevant who spent money on what and what his savings were intended for. Things have changed. You, as a family need to prioritise. If he isn't willing to do this then that is your answer.

We bank with Lloyds at the moment it’s a £1.20 overdraft fee per day. Goes up the more you are in it.