Brexit -have you changed your mind??

[Leapfrog44]

I know Brexit has been done to death and I'm not asking for anyone's justification for wanting out or in.

I'm just really curious to know if any of the folks who voted leave have changed their minds (as is sometimes reported by the Guardian).

Is there a benefit for a crash out??

Would a crash out even exist?! Or would it just be an extension of current policies and tariffs - so still being part of the EU in everything but name?

My take on the situation ...

Ignoring the exact details of any deal, the key is - for the time being - it's the only game in town. Unless or until the cabinet reject it.

That being the case, the next step is to get the EUs sign off. Not quite a rubber stamping exercise, but Barnier has been keeping all parties up to speed so there's unlikely to be any killer flaws.

At that point, the House of Commons gets a look-in. They get the deal/no-deal choice.

At the moment - much as they may hate it - the ERG/JRMs are in a bind. They have no power in cabinet (unless/until someone resigns). They can stamp their little feet (or get the nannies to do it for them) but their only weapon for now is (allegedly) the Tory self-destruct button of a leadership challenge. While they really are that stupid, they have to talk to some grown-ups first about that, so it's not as easy as it might have seemed a few weeks ago.

Those Leavers on this thread who have said they want a No Deal crash out (with all that a No Deal implies e.g. food/medicine having to be stockpiled), how are you feeling about a deal now possibly happening? Would you press for this deal to be rejected?

I think the answer there is that it's not winner stays on. You get one shot, and one shot only. (Yes, there is a subtext ...). You voted leave. This is leave. You don't like it ? Well there isn't another one for you. And if you aren't happy with the result, maybe you should have had something in writing to work to, rather that setting light to Farage Farts everytime anybody wanted to know what "Leave" looked like.

Life's too short, but I'm pretty certain that whenever Leavers wrote on these threads what they would be getting from Brexit .... this is not it. Nor will it ever be.

My personal feeling is that May has upped the ante ... if Leavers don't like this there's only one option: a second referendum.

Bearing in mind, Theresa May wasn't expected to last till July 2017, to have got this far, and survived 2 party conferences .... well loathsome as she and her politics are, there's a reason we have the phrase "grudging respect".

I think the window of opportunity for any ERG mischief closed a while back. They are more than welcome to rubbish this deal. They can even vote against it. But that's the only choice they have now.

I really can't see there being any appetite (or airtime) in seeing JRM or Farage on every Question Time banging on about how we need to leave the EU in future.

Seeing the back of Farage on QT would be a bonus of this deal, if it happens. Getting JRM to put a sock in it would also be one.

I live in a staunchly Leave area. I'm interested to see what our Community FB page says - always a happy trolling ground for Leavers.
Full of "the will of the people " with the odd "We love Tommy" stupid shit like that.

Seeing the back of Farage on QT would be a bonus of this deal, if it happens. Getting JRM to put a sock in it would also be one

Well as soon as he stops being an MEP, it becomes a question of "who the fuck is this Farage character ?".

Although in the 5-person QT panel, there's usually a comedian.

Why hasn't MN moved this thread to Brexit? If it's not about that, what is it about?

I typed out a long post, then deleted it, the whole affair makes me so angry. To the poster who said it was like remainers were like kids squabbling over a toy, my life and future has been changed irrevocably. My children’s future has been changed, my family life will no longer have the same direction. I am remain, but because of this “democratic” vote will now have to take up a different EU nationality, I count myself lucky because I can.

As much as I hate to say it, Tony Blair described the current situation very succinctly:

"By leaving the EU's political structures but remaining in the economic structures (the current deal May has made), the UK will cede rather than regain control of its destiny.

The UK now faces a choice between the prime minister's 'pointless' Brexit and a 'painful' no-deal departure."

The deal being laid out today makes us worse off than before. The alternative is a no-deal crash out which will undoubtedly make us worse than before. Yet if anyone says "maybe we should rethink this" we get told "THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE!". Talk about stubborn stupidity.

"By leaving the EU's political structures but remaining in the economic structures (the current deal May has made), the UK will cede rather than regain control of its destiny.

But the Leaver narrative was that we had already ceded sovereignty. So it's now their call to try and whip up the masses by explaining that in fact they were wrong originally, and that this deal is worse that the status quo.

It's a masterpiece of rhetorical placement, and it's hard to sense a lot of Leaver momentum has crashed under the weight of their own campaign of deliberate misinformation. It's almost Aesopian, if we're allowed to reference long dead Greeks without being elitist ?

{Is there a benefit for a crash out??}
Yes, The EU get rid of a bunch of whinging UK MEPs and UK government who have never really wanted to 'play the game'.
They will be sad that friends in science and technology will be disadvantaged but may well make amends by more 'golden hellos' and welcome to Europe.
The Tories also get the chance to show their brilliance at reshaping the UK to reconquer the globe, unfortunately as work in progress you may not see it for a very long time.
Leave voters get to 'own' their decision. (but they may not actually like it)

I AM a fervent remainer who could accept that we’re leaving IF those in charge of the negotiations, after more than 2 years to think about it and organise it, could say what will happen when we leave and how it will benefit our country.

They can’t, so excuse me leavers for not being able to see leaving as in any way a positive move. To take this country through something so monumentally important with no clear plan or sense of the outcomes is verging on the criminal and I hope those responsible are held to account.

A second vote, based on whatever reality they come up with in the current negotiations seems sensible to me. THis is not a chance for remainers to have a second go, rather a chance to vote based on the facts this time. If leave were to win again, I at least would feel those voting to leave knew how it would, rather than might, change the future of this country.

I want to be part of Europe but can accept a Brexit that will bring prosperity to Britain. At the moment it looks like neither will happen.

A second vote, based on whatever reality they come up with in the current negotiations seems sensible to me. THis is not a chance for remainers to have a second go, rather a chance to vote based on the facts this time

the trick is to get Leavers to call for that. If they feel (and I quote) "stitched up" enough.

A second referendum would be "shit deal or no deal". Given some of the crap Leavers have come out with, the thought that it would go for No Deal actually scares me.

DG. It does worry me that Leavers don’t seem concerned that our leaders don’t seem to know what they’re doing or have a plan or projected outcomes for leaving. How can you be confident that leaving will be a good thing when the government to date, after 29 month, can’t agree on a workable and positive plan? Leaving is not the problem, more the fact that the people that are paid to spearhead this, don’t seem to know how to achieve it.

No, still would vote remain 100%.

If there were a second referendum, there would need to be an additional option to remain in the EU for there to be any point in having it at all.
In a shit/no deal straight choice, Remainers like myself would probably have no choice but to vote shit deal, not because we wanted it, but because it’s the least bad option. That way, we get to keep some of the benefits of the EU at least, even if we do lose any say in how those benefits develop in the future.

If no deal is a viable choice, please politicians, tell us honestly what this will mean so Leavers know what they are doing to this country. It’s too late after the event to say I didn’t think this would happen if the dire predictions come true.

No

No, I want hardest of hard remain.

Passionate Brexiteer back in 2016 and my views have not changed.

I remember Cleggy abusing Nigel of Farage when Nigel insisted the EU were ramping up to create an EU army. And lo, Mrs Merkel and Mr Macron have this week announced their intention to do the very same. Go figure. I rather feel we have our own (much depleted, admittedly) army as well as being part of NATO – but hey, what’s another army to this unaudited, unelected shower? Do we really think member states want another army?

This is just one of 60,000 reasons why I voted to Leave.

The trouble is, the Remainers didn’t know what they were voting for.

Hilarious, Sad

Sad 😂😂

Please can you list the other 59,999 reasons?

This Remainer knew exactly what she was voting for - the status quo, it's been good for us. It could be better if we had stopped whining for special deals and committed ourselves wholeheartedly.