To ask PIL not to bring other GC on days out

[Petitprince]

We have an ongoing situation with my lovely PILs and aren't sure how to sort it out.

For background, they live near SIL and BIL and do a lot of childcare for them, which is great and we have no problem with. They are understandably very close to these GC. Also, because BIL and SIL have quite a few children, PIL buy a lot for them. Again, no problem, they can spend their money how they like, but is relevant later.

We live at a distance and just have one toddler, quite a bit younger than the other littlest GC, a lot younger than the rest.

When we go to see PIL, the other grandchildren come round pretty much all the time, ask to stay to dinner and stay over if we are staying over etc. This is under the guise of spending time with their cousin, but means that our DC barely gets any quality time with their grandparents.

After a year of these visits we asked if they'd come to see us instead, or go on days out, but they keep bringing the other GC because they say they don't get to do nice things otherwise (admittedly, BIL will just sit on the computer all day and doesn't really take them out because he says there are too many to cope with).

Our DC clams up and clings to us when the other GC are there as they are much bigger and more boisterous, so doesn't get to see much of PIL.

Also, PIL complain if we want to go to places with a mid to higher entrance fee as they then have to pay for the other GC (no chance of BIL and SIL paying or coming along).

This Christmas we'd like to go to some grottos and Christmas things, and they say they'd like to come, but when they see the price per child they ask if we can do something else.

We want it just to be them and our child. AWBU?

You have my sympathies, op. My SIL similarly has a large, boisterous brood, lives close to PIL and gets a lot of childcare from them.

When we visit (we live in a different country) my dd finds it overwhelming. Eldest dn has adhd and is a wonderfully vibrant, fun-loving person, and she is desperate for a close relationship with dd as they are the same age. But dd is a complete introvert and she finds the constant attention and chatter suffocating, and when the whole family are crammed in together at PIL’s she has no escape. It is noisy, chaotic and whilst most of us love that, dd is a quiet, orderly person who hates it.

We also found that because the cousins are so used to spending time there, they monopolised MIL. My dc ended up trying (unsuccessfully) to disappear to play quietly together, away from everyone else.

Things came to a head between dd and eldest dn when dd yelled at her that she just wanted to be on her own, after being pursued without a break all day. I found both girls in tears with SIL telling off dd for being antisocial. There was a lot of shouting about dn’s needs, but no-one was taking into account that dd had needs too.

At that point I realised things could not go on as they were, and we had to have an honest chat with SIL and MIL. It was difficult but cleared the air. Now when we visit we make sure there is a mix of time alone with PIL, and time together with everyone. This allows dd time to ‘recharge’ alone. We have also explained at length to dd why she needs to be kind to her cousin, and that if she makes the effort to be friends with her and find a way to cope with the noise and exuberance for a while then we will make sure she in turn gets the space to be quiet and alone later.

Everyone is now on the same page, and everyone’s needs are taken into account. There are still times when it feels like SIL’s kids and their needs are prioritised, but I think that’s inevitable due to proximity and the fact they are the dc of MIL’s daughter rather than her son, but things are miles better than they were.

I think you’ll just have to have that conversation.

I agree is not just distance - IL have always been much further away in distance yet have always managed to see our children much more.

My parents on vsist to us would also refused to leave the house so no popping down to the park either for us - but that was my children's normal though often frustraing to me or DH as they could never give a time so could end up sat around waiting all morning or till late afternoon.

I get where you are coming from OP. Our PIL do a lot of childcare for our two DNs, so naturally get to spend a lot of time with them. My DD loves to spend time with her cousins, but also wants some time with PIL by herself. PIL totally get it and make sure she gets 1-2-1 with them from time to time- they are lovely so I know she really values it.

I don’t think you are BU or that it’s a PFB thing. My own PFB was the adored first grandchild on both sides. My almost 2 year old has no bond with my in-laws, very rarely gets to see them without my SIL’s kids and because those two boys love them and go to them for hugs and my son doesn’t really know them then he hangs back and they make no effort with him.

I think it’s really sad but I can’t see it changing anytime soon. I think it is how it is but it’s changed how I feel about my in-laws. I actually wouldn’t consider leaving my DS with them while they were looking after the cousins because he would be second best. At least if I’m there he’s my priority. Although I wouldn’t leave him with them at the moment anyway because he wouldn’t be comfortable. Also he’s allergic to 4 things and they just will not remember what they are!

Sorry, think I needed a rant! YANBU

It looks unlikely that the DGPs have any free time for one to one with DS if they work full time.

I have to say that as a GP myself I do not feel a thrill at the thought of another Santa's Grotto, the DGPs have probably visited a grotto every xmas every year since the first DGC was a toddler, plus what they did with their own DCs. Some are nice and warm and quick, some are a never ending queue in a cold, damp wonderland.

What about inviting the ILs over for a nice grown up Sunday lunch (taxi home so they can have a glass of wine??) Go to some trouble. Make sure they don't do the clearing up. Of course DS will be there but if they have their DGC every weekend then that would be a nice change for them.

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all!!

I think it needs a direct conversation with your PIL where you explain that you think it's great that their other GC get time with just them. However, you've realised your DC doesn't have that opportunity and often gets overlooked when in a group with older cousins. Use the example of booking a trip to Santa one on one.

This way it at least forces them to say why they won't do it. You won't look at all unreasonable.

I can sympathise but I don’t have an answer. When my dcs were small my in-laws had other gcs living very close while we were 4 hrs away. Every time we stayed with them the other children were there, including when I was 1 week post miscarriage and just wanted peace and quiet. When they came to stay with us they invariably left early because they had to call in and see the other gcs and would phone them every day. To be fair all the gcs were very close as children and we had some amazing extended family holidays all together, but it was always crystal clear who the favourites were. MIL also has a very obvious favourite child of her own three so maybe it’s just how they are.

YANBU, I have a similar issue. My dad has a large number of stepGC and the youngest are the same age as mine. I live 4 hours away and rarely see him. I took my DC to see him and his StepDC had been off loaded to stay at their granny's house. They see so much of my DF that they are very close to him. They came round when we were there and one of them had a massive tantrum because my DC were there and he was paying them attention. Our relationship has actually soured quite badly because my DC and my siblings are second class GC to his partners.

Your SIL and BIL are taking the piss. They don't care about offloading their DC onto PIL when you are around so why should you be mindful of their feelings. Where is your DH in all this? Why can't he talk to them about it and say it's great for everyone to get together but they also want to see them on their own. If PIL refuse you know where you stand.

For this reason I only visit one set of grandparents in the school holidays! Cousins are at school but can still bond with my DC after 3pm.

I think you should say something to GP's. Just because they see the other GDC daily doesn't mean it should be at the expense of a building good relationship with your child.

My cousins lived within a couple of streets of the GP's but we lived 3 hours away. My GM was a bit of a cow and clearly favoured her older daughter and her kids that she saw almost daily. She spent lots of money on them and fawned over them. (They were nice enough kids.)
Luckily, GF was wonderful and made time for us on a 1:1 basis doing fun stuff and teaching us about nature etc. I remember GM showing off to my mum and praising something that older cousin had done and thankfully, GF intervened and pointed out the things that I had done well and why he was proud of me.
When GM was very old and needing care, her darling daughter wasn't interested in helping so my mum stepped up and she came to live with us. However, I was an older (angry) teen then and couldn't forgive her earlier behaviour so I constantly avoided her.

Sadly it's too far for a taxi but we do offer for PIL to stay over at ours. They just don't want to.

I understand what you mean about them having done all this before with the grottos etc. With their first GC they did everything possible as it was all a novelty, and as his siblings were born they did less and focussed on cheaper things as there was always going to be a group to take out.

But for our DC, it's her first time for all of this so we want to make the most of it, particularly as she's likely to be an only child.

This won't get better unless you talk to the gps about it. They are either a bit oblivious or feel that they have to make up for the parental shortcomings of your bil and sil, whereas your baby is fine because you are more involved parents.
But yanbu to point out to them that your dc needs to build a relationship with them independently of the cousins. Then it's up to them, but I certainly wouldn't be letting my child miss out on activities on account of this.

I know how you feel OP, I have a similar situation with mil and sil. And we all live in the same town.

YANBU. My in laws grandkids are also pretty much always there, and they were louder and more hard work so they spent all their time with them, and no quality time with my daughter. So I just stopped making the effort to go over there

Petit
One thing I have learned in life is that you cannot hang around waiting for family to throw you a fish. You will waste a lot of emotion and time doing this. Get your DH to talk to them and if they do, great. If not crack on.

DH and I have had loads of hurtful issues with both of our families. I am complaining about one of them on another thread. I'd never not do something because of someone else dramas though. I'd ask them to go and if they say no I'd say "OK, thats a shame. That's what we are doing". Why do you need them to go anyway? Do what you want and let them see that the world keeps turning without them and they are missing out on their youngest DGC. Please do not waste time waiting for your BIL/SIL to get their act together and your PIL to stop enabling their laziness.

I had this but with my parents. They used to have my brother kids every Saturday afternoon at the rugby and then all day Sunday. The only way we could get to see them was to either go up to visit or they would rock up in half term with the kids in tow. My DB and SIL never ever came along and even used to complain about their kids being brought down to where I live. They also complained if we were visiting and they felt that their kids were having to fit in with us. It caused a lot of resentment from me as I wasn't actually able to arrange to see my own parents as I always had to fit round my niece and nephew. It was also annoying as I had to often take them with me if I was going off to see mates who also had kids so I would end up with 4 kids in my car while DB and SIL sat relaxing at home :(

It sounds like they do such a lot for the other DGC that any time they have to themselves they probably just want a bit of peace, not another DGC, hence they try to combine all the DGC together. To be honest, I can understand that. They must be knackered, and I can see why they'd want to sleep in their own bed rather than staying over at yours. As crucial as it seems to us parents, 'quality time' with a toddler can be overrated!

That said, I also see your side of things and remember how special everything was for my PFB. But in truth your PFB has a good relationship with her other GPs by the sounds of it, plus she'll enjoy the time with these GPs and cousins. She'll also enjoy the grottos (probably - mine didn't!) without needing her GPs there. Obviously there's an inequality in how much attention your DC is getting compared to your DNs from this set of GPs, but from what you've said it's for the best of reasons, not because of meanness or loving them more. They're just doing their best with the time/energy/money that they have, and your DC isn't really suffering. Tbh she probably won't even remember if they're there or not, but sure she'll have happy memories of being at theirs with all the cousins around.

So on balance, yanbu to want other GC not to be there, but I think ywbu to realistically expect that to happen in the circumstances. It's just one of those things beyond your control so I'd just go with the flow if poss.

I don't see the happy cousins all together myself. Did you say they are all boys? How old are they? When they get to 12 they won't want to hang out with a younger cousin and will be off doing their own thing. I doubt there is going to be Swallows and Amazons type summers to look forward to.

I don't have any advice but just wanted to say I feel your pain! My MIL will never do anything with just us and our our kids, always invited SIL and her kids. But the other way round, she never invites my children when she spends time with SIL and her kids. It drives me insane. Worst bit for me though is when my niece nastily says to my children "Nanny always has me for sleepovers and not you!"
So frustrating. And then when I moan to hubby about it, we row as he always says it isn't a problem!

I wasn't talking about in the future - OP's DC is only a toddler so the most she'll get is the sense of a lively home with other kids around, presumably paying her a bit of attention now and again. That's as good a memory/formative experience as a grotto, is all I meant, not a promise of Swallows and Amazons. Presumably when the cousins are older the GP won't have to spend as much time with them so this won't be such an issue then.

I understand OP. We live a couple of hundred miles away from my PILs whereas SIL and her kids are on the same street.

It's understandable I think that my PILs would be closer to SILs kids, however, it's all one way with them. It's us that call them, it's us that do the travelling to visit them (they are in good health and quite capable of making the journey) and what's more, on the rare occasions that they do travel to us they insist on bringing SILs kids with them to give her a break. They have never offered to babysit for us on visits but look after SILs several times a week. When we visit them they insist that SILs kids join us on any outing. They have taken SILs kids on holiday but not ours.

The result is a complete lack of relationship between my kids and the PILs. Which they then complain about.

I don't let it bother me. I figure that my kids are amazing and it's the PILs that are losing out.

I don't think you're unreasonable at all. I like including other family on days out, lunch etc. But sometimes, we've asked in laws so that they can catch up with DD and how she is and with everyone else, that does get lost.

I would just say you'd like to have some time as just the smaller unit.

YANBU.
When mine were young we used to go and visit my parents for a holiday each summer (we lived a long way away, the visits were at their request) at the last minute some 'crisis' would always arise whereby my sisters 3 kids (older than mine) would have to come down and saty with GP's because mys ister 'needed a break'. menawhile my sister and her Dh would go swanning off to France on holiday.
I (and my DH) were then expected to take her 3 out with my two (My DP's didn;t come - they also needed a break from GC apparently)

We were expected to chaneg our plans to accomodate older children, ptherwise they whined and made a fuss and 'it wouldn;t matter to my two because they were little) so if we wanted to take mine to apetting farm or similar, it was vetoed as too babyish.

Anyway, the upshot was my Dh didn;t want to spend his annual leave looking after my sister's kids, my kids didn;t particularly enjoy being with their cousins (for various reasons) so I used to visit less frequently with my kids, and if there was a last minute announcement that my sisters kids would be there, I'd cancel and say I'd come another time.

Didn;t solve much - in fact we ended up seeing a lot less of them (although my Dad would come up to visit and wanted to take mine out for trips, as he also got fed up of the constant favouring of other GC) because circumstances didn;t really change. I just felt a bit less stressed on holidays elsewhere.

So - I would say think about what you really want, it is unlikely your PIL will change the way they behave, so you may end up seeing less of them, you could outright ask if they would not have the other kids round all the time when you visit (obviously fine if they pop over for tea to see cousins but not all the time) and offer to pay for outings just involving your kids.

To some people it might seem a bit petty, but when it happens constantly it is quite wearing, and as they get older your kids will probably get fed up of it too and not want to visit their gps, (that;s what happened with my son, he just opted out as soon as he was old enough, and I don't blame him)

Perhaps you could say you would like to go to X grotto and you have booked tickets for it for you and the PILs?

Lots of people are saying YANBU . Me too ,

My advice would be to speak to them face to face very calmly about it. Prepare what you are going to say and let them know how upsetting you find it.

Find out their thoughts and feelings. If they are seeing these other GC so much then surely the kids aren't missing out on anything.

Spell it out to them that you find it sad for your child and sad for you as parents and that you would really like to have some lovely family times with them, without other people's children present making it a whole new dynamic.

With regard to grottos etc maybe you should lower your expectations. But I think you should be able to invite them around and ask for them to come on their own.